I completely agree, I doubt the sixers can keep up with the Breakers away, I think they will be competitive for 3 qtrs then fallaway. Breakers by 12. Sure hope i'm wrong tho!

Bookies have NZ at $1.12 for the win while Sixers are $5+. With our woeful away record and how we have been playing this season I don't see it happening. However, NZ could come out complacent and the Sixers could shoot the lights out and win.

NZ by 14

Breakers are $1.15 favourites with Adelaide paying $5.40. Line is -10.

Hopefully Adelaide learnt enough from the last game to avoid digging that 15-20 point hole this time.

^ers game plan isnt good enough and they are one veteran and one genuine centre away from being a genuine threat to the better teams. Will be a morale victory if they get within 8points. Breakers are ruthless once they get a roll on at home. Adelaide are very consistant at being very bad on the road and giving teams W's on a plate by half time!

Reckon Adelaide can keep it close and get a respectable loss away.

Unless the perimeter shooting for NZ falls flat for 2 quarters, it will be the Breakers.

I'll say Breakers by 8.

breakers by 12. just dont see it happening, and the days of hoping for an upset win have faded massively.

Fizzle, i tend to agree on the 1 Vet and Legit Center call. DJ is good but not quite there yet and Balls is a PF not a C as stated in every Sixers thread this Season

BOX.

OUT.





...NZB by 17

After seeing Sixers last away game against Melbourne then only hope would be if Penney puts the wrong singlet on and plays for Sixers .
Even if we can play to standard of last 2 home games then we still dont have that match winner to stand up and get us home.
Balls has ability but in those vital key minutes doesnt seem to be able to get the ball to take us home .
Anyway hope we go and have a good shot at this game to gain some confidence in away matches.

Anyone know if Carter's back tonight?

Not expected to play tonight or against Perth. Should be back the game after that though.

I'll be the guy to pick the Sixers by 2 for no valid reason apart from bragging rights if they pull off a miracle.

Surely playing on Sunday and then travelling will destroy any chance of the 6ers getting close...

Breakers by 21!

Thanks Isaac. Breakers by 15

Breakers will dominate us if the Umpires keep up this crap again. How is Creek shoved onto the ground, no call at all AGAIN. Then a touch on Penny, instant whistle.

Would be nice if we got games ref'd like this at home games.

Johnson has had an instant impact with 4 points and 2 rebounds.

NZ defence contiues to be hack hack hack hack.

Breakers up 27 - 21.

Defense hasnt been the best by the Sixers but were not getting any help from the whistle blowers either.
Need to hit our freethrows, already missed 3 from 8

Good to see DJ playing some minutes, I hope he just gets told to take it strong to the ring, not frilly little shots he falls into sometimes.

Blowout much?

This is not only getting insulting, its getting disgusting.
Penney is taking complete advantage of Hill's PATHETIC defense.

Umpires, theres TWO teams out there, when they HACK us your JOB is to CALL the F$%KING FOUL!

LOL this has got to be the worst display by any sixers team i have seen in my life. where is the defence? they are pushed up so far they come flying in the back door.

This game is a lot more fun to watch if you pretend you're a NZ fan, go on, give it a try.

haha i like your style Billo. watching games like this makes me wonder if the sixers want a fan base next season

i just stopped recording the game

holy shit i just realised we havent even hit the trademark 3qtr slump. this will be a 40+ point win for NZ

Luckily live stats have dies so as to spare me the pain of further score updates.

" oh wait its skud so of course he ll single out hill"

If you werent so ignorant you would have noticed since Hill came on Penney scored 9 points, after 4 when guarded by Creek for twice as long. Just because I dont like or think Hill should be in the team doesnt mean I will single him out, yes our entire team is playing horrible defense but Hill has left Penney WIDE open, no excuse, stop hiding behind anon nicks, atleast I have the balls to stand up to my comments with a nick I stick to

Clark seriously needs to put Johnson on Pledger and LEAVE him there, he has had way to many rebounds, two piss easy blocks on Hill, with noone to gather the ball for us.
Leave Holmes, Ballinger and Johnson on the court for a while together so we dont have a rediculous height disadvantage. Seriously how hard is it to see how many teams score in the paint against us.

The umpires are bad but its always like that there, they will always let physical contact go. We just have to adjust to that. However playing this pathetic is no excuse. Clarke going back to his normal million subs. Even that our man to man D is pathetic we should never go zone. Hopefully we can save some pride in the second half

"Luckily live stats have dies so as to spare me the pain of further score updates"

No XY, I think it will just drop your jaw when they start working again :(

Does the curly haird commentator look stoned to anyone else?? Im impressed he is putting a sentance together

Someone call Chevy Chase, I've spilt Chernobly in the Hot tube and I'm back in 2009 again.

Agree, refs aren't helping Sixers cause at all. Sixers aren't exactly doing themselves any favours either. When Jacob Holmes is one of your best offensive weapons, you know you are in trouble. Sixers transition D is almost non exsistant. Pledger is having a ball out there, nice Abercrombie Alley Oop play and everyone is on scoreboard pretty much.

This is one of the more physical games I've seen in a while. Refs seem to be letting it go almost completely. We have zero offense and just as much defence. It seems like almost a lack of effort and lack of heart. Some of the open shots and layups the Breakers have had have been truly embarrassing. Clarke doesn't seem to have any intensity. He needs to rip them a new one about now

23 - 14 in rebounds, honestly we will not be a real team until we have a Centre who is strong under the ring and can score. DJ might have potential for 5 years down the track, but for now he needs to be replaced or we just accept the season is over and try to do it again next year.

Agree Skud, the best thing we can do is go tall. Putting on Daly!? What a useless thing is that!

Bruce had a great 8 point play in the first quarter... for the other team! First he left CJ open for an easy 3. Then Braswell hits a 3 (debatable whether or not the center should have came up from the screen). Then fouls someone in the back court so they have an easy 2 foul shots.

I don't think Hill has done that bad but he still shouldn't be guarding Penney

Also Shannon could move the ball more in offence would be great, instead of having a stagnate offence.

Thanks KJ, I didnt see who Bruce was guarding..probaly because they where wide open.

Line up I would go with is Holmes, Balls, Johnson, Howard and Shannon.
Rotate Creek and Howard, Bruce with Shannon and Dowdell can fill in for the other three.
None of these players should need more than 4 minutes sitting time for the rest of the game, its not our best team, but its the team I would put on the court to get us back into it. Tell Johnson to be BIG under the ring and not drift out, let Holmes block out Wilkinson to free up Balls and let it ride!!

Glad things are picking up in the third.

I mean picking up ... where they left off...

Skud, it is not just Hill's fault. Its not even mainly his fault. He was off the court for a good deal of the run that broke the game open.

As much as we all love Creek, he is not the defensive stalwart you are trying to claim. Remember the Abercrombie lob end of 1st quarter? That was Creek's guy. For some reason he decided to pressure the PG up the floor and left Daly trying to cover Abercrombie.

Its rookie errors like this that are costing us.
Remember that a lot of these guys aren't very experienced and it shows against well drilled VETERAN teams like the Breakers.

Did you hear Lemanis in a timeout in the 2nd? He said "their guards don't deal well with on ball screens". And he's right. They get lanes to the basket all night long with good screens and then when we collapse, it opens up their platoon of 3 point shooters.

Then we look even worse, because everyone is out of position and we can't block out and corral the rebound.

The other problem that started the run was that we started the second with Johnson on the court. He can't stay in front of Wilkinson who is too fast for him. So defensively we were getting burned where in the first quarter, Balls and Holmes had things under control.

It would have been fine for DJ to stay on, however, if our guards had some patience and worked out how to get the ball to him (and Balls) in the post. The Breakers can't guard them if we get them the ball in the right spot! Unfortunately, our guys just don't play smart and don't know how to set Balls and DJ up.

Massive growing pains. I hope I look back in a year and can say it was all worth it!

Got home for the start of the 2nd half, turned it off again 4 minutes later. The 6ers will be luck to score 65 points and not lose this game by 40.

"Skud, it is not just Hill's fault. Its not even mainly his fault. He was off the court for a good deal of the run that broke the game open."

Never once stated it was, I said Penney has scored 9 wide open points on him, previously I said that the whole teams defense was rubbish...Bit of imagintion being used saying Im blaming Hill.

Now we have gone ultra short...oh this can go wrong

Skud, what would you call it when you make the specific point that Penney scored 9 points on Hill? I would say you were strongly insinuating that Hill is the guy to blame!

"For some reason he decided to pressure the PG up the floor and left Daly trying to cover Abercrombie."

Beantown going by previous games Im fairly confident that both Hill and Creek are under instructions to pressure the PG bringing the ball down. They do this pretty well everytime, Creek's had some pretty decent success with it, but I dont blame either player for having to drop back in that situation I blame Clark.

Correct me if im wrong about the coach telling them to do so, this is just what Ive guaged from the games so far.

Besides Ballinger there isnt another person on the team i would keep.They are just rubbish. No other way of putting it. If an import like Howard is out of NBL price range at the start of the season the the NBL is in a real sorry state of affairs.We have no pure shooters we have no one that can take it inside. Where do you even start with the rubbish D.When Carter comes back stick Howard on the first plane back and save ya pennies for next season

everyone whinging about the refs, seriously, the sixers are playing terrible- end of story, not the refs that are playing poor defense.

secondly, marty clarke is just not up to scratch- i bet you that at half time instead of discussing what was and wasn't working- he was probably drawing up the next play- that's all he ever does!

Rip 2010/11, the 3year plan is certainly starting off terribly! I jut remember how I knew nothing of Marty Clarke or who he was and everyone saying how great he'd be....wrong!

Those screens at the top of the key are hurting us. The ball handler goes out wide and before you know it the shot clock is winding down and we're back where we started. How many times this season, as a 36ers fan, have you looked up to see us still working out a play with 5-6 seconds on the clock?

Once the doubt sets in, the sloppy turnovers show up, just like in Melbourne.

I'm running out of adjectives to describe the level of suck we've slumped to.

Back to back wooden spooners?

I'm going to give cheering for NZ a try so I remember that nice feeling.

Wait.

That blonde they focussed on before the 4th has gone some ways to restoring said feeling.

And then Dowdell misses a dunk.

UGH.

Back-to-back Hill car wreck turnovers. Pretty to watch. At least he got benched.

What the hell, have we given up on this game??? Wheres our BEST lineup for christ sakes Marty COACH the team to win, not develop them.

Now yes I dont like Hill but he looks to be SERIOUSLY struggling tonight, one thing I would never fault him for is his fitness, everytime the camera has been on his face tonight he has looked destroyed, any rumours about sickness??

Down 22 points as I write this. Holmes +/- for this game so far, unless I've missed subs: +1.

Can someone double-check?

If they have any set plays this year, they've done an awesome job of keeping them under wraps.

Clarke has numerous plays and a player mentioned after our last loss at home that it's not that we don't have the plays it's that as players they don't know how to make the right decision when the defense takes them out of designed play.

Anon regarding Clark I seriously dont think we do. The recommendations and the stats of these players elsewhere show that they can play, but Clark clearly cant utilise either of them. Howard being told to stand on the baseline to shoot three's when he is a cut and drive player is just well, STUPID. He has never looked comfortable in this teams format.
Shannon with some quality scorers around him would be great in this league, his passing at first was spot on, its faded away as he has realised some many of them cant shoot.

Im going to cry to see them go to teams next year and be stand out imports.

Perimeter Defence anyone?

Mitch Creek needs to learn that he doesnt need to make the highlight reel everytime he gets the ball.

Brad Hill needs to learn to handle the rock.

We need to learn to stop Wilkinson, that Ranga kills us every time!

Thank the lord for Balls

Hang on a minute EVERYONE !

Getting a win against Breakers was never gunna happen, so why be surprised when we are down.

BUT, Fork me twice on a Sunday. When he wheels fall off, they really fall off!

Would people notice if we swapped coaches with NZ..they look similair enough

Sorry for my massive amount of posts, Im venting before my social netty game tonight so I dont take my anger at this game out there!!

Brad Hill reminds me of Bubba from Forrest Gump. He needs to tuck that bottom lip away or it might get caught on a trip wire.....

Why has Ballinger played only 24 minutes? There is a massive problem right there. For your marquee and best player him only logging just over half a game is horrible.

That is terrible terrible coaching. How can the organisation even let that keep happening?

Ballinger reckons we played hard tonight. Who is he trying to kid.

Dean, I can only assume Clarke was looking for a successful combination. Ballinger's +/- was -17 I think?

Creek -21
Ballinger -17
Bruce -14
Johnson -11
Shannon -11
Daly -3
Howard 0
Dowdell +1
Holmes +1
Hill +5

Hoping someone can check these.

Margin with 3:50 left was 14 and finished as that and there weren't really any subs in that stretch, so no one got an unfair benefit from true garbage time.

I'd like to thank the Breakers for not playing in the 4th quarter, it REALLY helped us not look like an ABA team.

Dean, the game was over early so no point using him much.

Even that I don't like Bruce how come no minutes in the second half? If he wasn't injured then I can't understand Clarke's decision. Instead Daly plays 10 minutes in the second half. I know all you sturt people love Daly but he is never going to be an NBL player so why are they bothering to play him.

Clarke would be happy that it was only 14 points to save some embarrassment. That was the same when NZ played here and we lost by 5. Both games were absolutely pathetic and losing by 20+ points was more reflective on the game.

We better have a huge turn around on Sunday or it will not be a happy day for Sixers fans.

At least I picked the margin correctly! :P

As a sixer supporter for life i know we have to take the bad times with a grain of salt - we've been spoilt in Adelaide, well not in the last 8 years but i've never been this close to climbing a clock tower. I kicked my cat on the way out to work this morning cause I knew NZ would punish us. Im not even gonna single out names


its just disgraceful....... our D sucks we look like amateurs no.... we look like bums

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've double-checked and unless I'm missing something, for all the hate and six turnovers, the 36ers were +5 when Brad Hill was on court. Is that right?

Anon, see my post before yours. We were more successful with him on the court. Unless I've got confused working things out while the NBL's play-by-play kept refreshing every few seconds, Hill had the best +/- of any 36er.

We open with a three point lead before Hill subs out. +3. We're down 13 when he comes back in. Deficit blows out to 22, before settling at 19 when Hill is subbed out again. -6 for a running total of -3. Subs in when we're down 28. Recovers 4 points. We're down 24 when he's subbed. +4 is a net of +1. Down 18 when he comes back and he is on at the end when we lose by 14. +4 makes him +5 for the game.

+/- means nothing in tonights game. Hill was terrible......again. even in the last minute he skys for a one handed rebound and cocks it back like dwight howard, then vikona comes through and takes it from him. look at the good rebounders...two hands, elbows out

Maybe he got lucky. Maybe he was on just when other players were doing everything right and rode their coattails (who was doing anything right?). (Those turnovers were horrible, don't get me wrong.) Maybe he was on against weaker opposition? (He started against the Breakers' best, another passage he was on against Bruton, Penney, Wilkinson, etc.)

Points, rebounds, turnovers - whatever. In the end, while Hill was on court (22-23 minutes) we outscored New Zealand.

Haven't looked at the numbers for the home game against the Breakers, but I do recall Hill co-leading the fightback in that game with Ballinger. Edit: Looked at the numbers - in a five point loss, Hill was +/- 0.

again what a game lucky to lose by 14 only seeing the breakers had 8 players on the court.what you ask yes thats right lets look 5 breakers plus hill bruce howard or maybe it was 10 .after allthe 6ers were helping the breakers to WIN.the next fool that says clarke can coach needs very very serious help just like clarke get rid of him or get a new team this shit has to stop .,l have one more thing to say who paid hill for tonights game.

Man if only we could trade Howard for Wilkinson, would be a totally different team, when Carter is back have him replace Howard IMO, he hasnt turned out may aswell develop the aussies.

Johnson needs to spend the off season rebounding and playing defense, his offense is mostly pretty good, if he could rebound he would be a force in this league.

DJ is just a youngster.

Could do with a few teaspoons of concrete Jonno?

Can someone please give me an update on what stage of this 3 year plan we have reached. If we are travelling towards completing this plan in 3 years, have we even moved out of the starting block yet?

DJ is a youngster and a future star IMO and i love his athleticism, i just wish he would dominate the paint more defensively and rebound more, he will be close to a future MVP if he can do that, how many 21 year old 7 footers in Australia can play as good as Johnson? none that ive seen in the NBL.

Excited to have him and look forward to him improving, i think the rest of this season we got to put plenty of minutes into guys like Bruce, Creek, Hill, Johnson, Carter thats our future core of good Aussie players with Johnson, Creek and Bruce as potential starters/stars on a good team.

Jack, I am sure all of our heads was telling us that we were going to lose against NZ but after 12 straight losses on the road, we must be getting closer and closer to the one we are going to win. Its long overdue and I guess we were hoping that this would be the one.

EC i think we are building well on the 3 year plan, we have bought in potentially the 2 best U/24 players in the league, in Creek and Johnson. Johnson needs to add more rebounds and defense to be a star and if Creek adds a jump shot he will also be a star, both are quite acheivable for them IMO.

Hill is improving and will atleast be a solid back up for years to come.

Bruce and Carter is about as good a aussie pg combo you will get, assuming Bruce reaches his top form again, would need a import in there to really top that and i personally hope we keep them both and keep Shannon, the best import we have had over the past 2 years, Bruce and Carter can both run minutes at SG.

Given Clarke is coach i would expect a few more top young Aussies landing in Adelaide over the next couple of years, this would have been the biggest draw card in hiring Clarke, and has already delivered us Creek

Given Creek and Bruce were not in the NBL at the start of the season, they are 2 handy pick ups.

If we can keep Shannon and bring in a import either in the Wilkinson (a 4/5 to team with Ballinger) mould or Rossell Ellis mould (a athletic, strong versatile 4/3 who can pinch hit at the 5), while retaining the bullk of Ballinger, Creek, Johnson, Carter, Bruce, Hill, Dowdell bring Herbert back from injury, obviously upgrading on any of these if we can get a top line Aussie or a top young gun who is better, and i think we will be vastly improved on this year.

This would give us something like (without adding a top line Aussie, which i hope we do and think we probably need to if we are going to win the title)

C Wilkinson, or similar mould import/Johnson
PF Ballinger/Dowdell
SF Creek/Hill
SG Herbert/Bruce
PG Shannon/Carter

thats a fair bit better than what we started with IMO, being Winder, Devries, Hill, Holmes, Ballinger backed up by Carter, Ng, Herbert, Dowdell, Johnson,

Watch us now turn around and beat Perth back at the Dome again to get our hopes up.

NZ are just too good across the board - Boomer PG backed up by Tall Blacks PG. Tall Blacks SG. Tall Blacks SF. Tall Blacks PF. Decent import backed up by Tall Blacks back-up C. But they don't force you to have passes slip through your fingers as happened in Melbourne and now NZ. We just lack spine/confidence on the road.

tyrell, why is it that you and many others like you think that when the refs are criticised, its an excuse for losing the game when its the team that played badly? Who says that a bad game can only be blamed on one single thing? Why can't you lose a game because the players were not playing good defence, they weren't shooting well, they weren't getting the rebounds, too many turnovers, the refs were crap, the coach was crap, etc, etc?

Isaac, we have lost 12 straight road games, they haven't all been against NZ. If we had won a majority of number 1 to 11, we wouldn't be lamenting tonight's loss. There will be no hopes lifted with a home win against Perth, because it doesn't matter how many home games you win, we can't win any on the road. Do you or anyone else know in the history of the NBL if there has been a champion that has won it on home game wins only? So far, Ninnis has got one up on Clarke, Clarke has no road game victories. Ninnis also only got 2 years. Will Clarke survive 3 years?

I dont understand how people say Johnson is a future star. While I want him on the court this season, from his play this year I dont want to see him back as anymore than a backup.
He has a shocking one handed shot and really isnt anywhere near enough of a strong rebounder. Reboundings kinda important for centres.

Never said otherwise re winning - when they're bad, they're terrible. Been the same through multiple coaches, changes in imports, etc. The lack of confidence applies at home too BTW, but not to quite the same level.

Skud, I agree that Marty has often been getting either Hill or Creek to help pressure the ball downcourt. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Hill has been doing a pretty good job of it (a lot of his steals are coming from those situations).

The play I was talking about when Abercrombie scored, I'm not sure what was called, but the team clearly wasn't on the same page as to what they were doing. May have been partly Daly's fault too, because he should have been one of the guys pressing up the floor, not trying to decide whether to box Vukona out of the key or stop Abercrombie from creating a highlight reel!

If Hill and Holmes are there next season, im not. Had enough of the experiment with Hill, he isnt going to get much better and he isnt a reliable baller as it is. Holmes can rebound all he likes, but im sure there is a decent player to recruit who can do that, and actually make the defence close out on his triple threat, and dare i say it, make a shot outside the key!

EC, I know. Sorry to state the bleeding obvious. The drought is pretty bad and I look forward to cracking the seal

Interesting numbers on the +/- for Hill, Isaac. I didn't see much of the second half as I had to go out. Think I might go watch the rest of the train wreck and see what I think.

We obviously pulled things back a bit, but the damage was all done in the 2nd quarter when they got on a roll and we didn't have the discipline and confidence to hold it together in the eye of the storm.

While I can understand people's frustrations with the Sixers continued lack of success, I tend to think most of the problems this team faces can only be solved with time and patience. Building a team's understanding of the game plan, developing their confidence in each other and their ability to work cohesively under pressure just takes time.

Marty has to teach these guys how to play winning NBL basketball. They're all either too young, haven't played a lot of minutes before, or have only played for terrible teams (unless Balls played on a good Hawks team?)

"Clarke has numerous plays and a player mentioned after our last loss at home that it's not that we don't have the plays it's that as players they don't know how to make the right decision when the defense takes them out of designed play."

Bizzy, that's interesting to hear and doesn't surprise me one bit. Sounds a bit like we need to get better at the basics. Set good screens and try to create off the pick and roll and pick and pop. Ballinger and Shannon should really be able to run that as a staple when we are under pressure. Especially when he's got some big slow oaf on him like Pledger or even Nevill (he's a GOOD, big slow oaf though). Even Holmes should be able to score a couple of baskets a game at the rim with a pick and hard cut down the lane!

Fizzle, his name is Oscar Forman.

Ballinger was with the Hawks in 2005 when they lost to the Kings 3-0 in the Grand Final. Hawks at the time had Mee, Saville, Rice, Rigby, Campbell, Kelly, etc.

They had a good record in 2006 as well. Similar team but with Mee replaced by Groves (24+ PPG, All-NBL).

Then 2007 was the year Joyce left. They were without Kelly and Rigby and had a pretty shoddy record.

In those first two years, Ballinger was surrounded by pretty strong defensive players and leader-types - Mee was Best Defensive, Kelly was a known defender, same with Campbell and Sav is pretty strong too. I wonder if that's a key to it, and why having Johnson is a gamble. Herbert, Holmes, Carter are considered fairly capable defenders. Though the Dragons struggled the season Holmes was most involved, Herbert and Carter were on a championship team.

Bean, Oscar won't rush home. I think he's going to ask Gordie to marry him. JK.

DJ will never be a star with his attitude. Firstly he needs to grow a pair and not be the soft whinging pussy he currently is. He doesn't seem to have the attitude to win, and he's happy to be role player on a squad.

I'd ask Gordie to marry me too if he did that much to develop my skills. Oscar has never looked better.

Well ship Holmes and Hill of to the gong...cos there careers are are about to RIP. Marty is just another NBL coach, with no real smarts about him, he had a HUGE Say in this roster

LOL Isaac, I won't blame Oscar if he'd rather play for Gordie. The Sixers have a long, hard road ahead before they will be ready to challenge the top teams. I just hope we don't turn into the Clippers or the Wizards, with a 20 year rebuilding process!

I am so glad I was at work and could only see the scores from the NBL website. When I clicked on the link, the same old comment was made, 'oh well another game with no substance'.

How can any team play that bad away and yet show something when at home? Do we need a psychiatrist for the team can I could sure use one considering this screws with my head!

All year we have witnessed 'melt-downs' and yet we had 2nd,3rd qtr ones.

I wont drop my membership but C'MON, enough is enough.
Performances like these are highly embarassing when you consider this is supposed to be a professional league and more so, its televised around Australia.

When they run out Sunday, I sure wont be clapping. My ego says, if you can only win at home and not away, your only half good and not Professional. Simple as that! Stop the rot 6ers!!!!

wbuwebgflabjytjitrktrkugfw just finished watching the replay. It wasn't worth me reading this thread or coming up with a remotely articulate comment, it'd just make me more pissed, so:

List of things that were shit:
Our zone
Every other D we tried
Hill
The NBL's softest player, Daniel Johnson.
Howard
Dowdell
Bruce
Holmes' first half
The referees (completely lost control)

Allow me to punch my keyboard once again... uyhgfbcgfyCGFbvchgfdbvhgfvhgb

allow me to explain those people who are saying things like pick roll turn pop duck all these terms mean nothing because this team can not pick its nose or a wedgey from its bum so deo not confuse the players with these terms .

on a positive note, Breakers played well. Wilkinson is playing well at both ends and Pledger backed him up well. Penney looked strong going to the cup and when Dillon Boucher can bullsh%t his way to the rim for a layup you know your D needs looking at seriously. I would have called a timeout instantly and torn shreds off who ever was marking him lol

Fizzle, I agree with your points but its funny you mention his inability to hit the outside shot when he hit 3 from 3 from outside the key against NZ. Your point still stands though! Also I would have picked Oscar over Jacob at the start of the season and Clarke had that choice.

TR, why should DJ have a great attitude when the whole season (Moreso early on when he still had confidence) he has playing well when he is on the court only to continue to get limited minutes.

XztatiK, he might have been very soft with some of his offence but at least he is still taking it up inside unlike Holmes. He had 18 points in 23 minutes of court time!! He also took some bad shots and also missed some easy points. Either way there is huge potential there if he is getting 18 in 23 minutes and had a bad game. Its time for the coach to start him and give him 30 minutes like the Tigers coach did.

No defence. Pissweak rebounding/boxing-out.

And he wasted a huge amount of offensive opportunities by throwing up an awkward fadeaway when he could have dunked the f**king thing or at least gone straight up strong for an easy 2 or foul.

Nice work getting 18 points but he was a liability in pretty much every other area. Story of his season. And you think he deserves nore minutes?

Any player should have a positive attitude regardless of their minutes/opportunities. You'll play yourself out of the league otherwise. I think what looks like Johnson or Hill sulking is just their 'game face'.

Damn it. I was hoping I dreamed all this, but the wreck is still here this morning.

This road ineptitude creates such a weird feeling for me at home games. It's like they're lying to the crowd by winning or something. So the casual fan that doesn't follow them sees the Sixers scrape by a crap team and thinks we're awesome.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Don't get me wrong, I never want the Sixers to lose - it just seems so disingenuous when they carry on after a home win; I kind of applaud a bit thinking "Yeh... that's great. Whatever. This season is going nowhere and you'll fly off someplace else to utterly capitulate".

I agree with you KingJames, DJ should get the extra time (as he has been recently). As I said in another thread recently, the Sixers aren't making the playoffs this season, so we might as well get as many minutes into DJ and Creek as possible. They will make a lot of mistakes and we will lose games, but hopefully come next season they will be ready to break out.

BTW X, I don't think DJ is deliberately avoiding contact under the basket. I think he needs to get in the gym and build up his lower body strength. Like a lot of beanpoles in this league, he is too easily pushed out of position and bumped off balance by shorter, stronger guys who get up underneath him. That is why you see some of those off-balance, horrible looking fade-aways he threw up last night. (Not to mention getting pushed under rebounds by your Vukona and Boucher types).

I really do not understand our team or some of the coaching moves.

We look decent sometimes such as the NYE game. Then crap the next. We never look good back to back. On the road we are a disgrace.

Marty pulls off strange coaching moves. He subs too much and doesn't allow duos to work together or three's to work together.

Things are just really crap.

I hope to see a better effort on Sunday, but I'm dreading it. I hope Dowell clips Redage across the ears a few times.

DJ needs core and upper body strength IMO. I still say he can be a force in the league in time.

Champ, I don't think it's the subs that do the damage. And we do look to isolate and set up a two-man game quite often down the floor, but it always takes so long to set up.

I think we break apart too quickly when it comes to team defence. Few switches and screens and all it takes is 1-2 players getting lost or lagging behind and the other team scores.

Surely though the up and down nature of the 6ers this year is what happens in the first year of a 'new direction' Next year it should improve and the team should play at a higher level more consistantly and so forth from there.

Sure some of the thngs that the coach is doing seem a little strange but I guess we dont get to see the whole picture or know exactly what the team is working towards, we just have to trust that the decision made to go with Clarke was the right one.

He was given a 3 year window to get the job done, I think he deserves to have a chance to implement all his systems and see the plan through - just have to get used to some eratic form at this stage I guess.

Here's my thoughts;

Yes we played terrible but how many teams have played terrible in New Zealand over the last couple of years?

Half of our team is new to each other this year and on top of that we have lost Herbert, Ng and Carter for big stretches and had to replace 2 imports.....whilst the majority of the good teams (NZ, Wol) have had minimal changes to their rosters over the same period of time.

We are young and inexperienced and without the crowd support we get bullied on the road. We have the ability to play good D and good O but we appear to be very timid when on the road and even sometimes at home.

The problem I think with this Sixers team is their attitude, they aren’t aggressive enough (youth, inexperience to blame?). Too often they are presented with an opportunity to finish with authority and they just lay the ball up or try to score with too much finesse. Last night portrayed this more than ever with the amount of soft lay ups they put up which then got swatted away……at least take it hard to the rack and make the defender make a good play to stop you. However, play the odds, chances are you will get fouled!

I am disappointed in some of the teams efforts this year but I am also trying to look at things realistically too. This year more than most is a developmental year. It gives Marty a chance to see where his guys are at compared to the rest of the competition and what their deficiencies and strengths are as a team and coaching staff. Look at how players like Hill and Ng have improved this season and that’s without Marty having seen them first hand before. Don’t give up on Marty just yet, I think he will prove his worth over the next 2 seasons!

The other problem I think the Sixers have is the unrealistic expectations from the majority fans. I love everyone’s passion for the team but we have to be realistic and patient…..good things come to those who wait. Calling for Marty’s head isn’t going to solve the problem, it will only amplify it……the Sixers need stability in the coaching staff and playing group. Good teams are built, not put together.

My suggestions for next year are to dump 1 import and Holmes and go after Schenscher. Get a 2/3 import that can handle the ball & create his own shot. Work on all the obvious stuff, strength, rebounding, D, attacking the rim and learning to accept to play with physicality (cos you’re not going to get the calls on the road that you get at home).

I’d like to see the Sixers represented like so next year;

Carter/Bruce
Herbert/Ng/ Greenwood (YAP)
Import/Hill/Creek
Ballinger/Creek/Dowdell
Schenscher/DJ/Dowdell

Did New Zealand just shut up shop at the end or are they really that unfit?
That's twice we should have been absolutely destroyed by them only to be bailed out at the end.
Their bench only really came on in the last minute, so it can't be that they had their bad players on the court.

Sixers started putting up better shots in the last quarter to make the score more respectable and when you have a lead like that it's pretty easy to take your foot off the gas a little. Last nights game was played at a pretty fast pace throughout by both teams.

Another away disaster.
In a 3 year plan you are supposed to go forward in 1st year which although at times at home showed some teamwork we really have not gone forward too far.
Get really frustrated when keep being told team young and inexperienced . Majority is not but lets assume they are then tell me who is going to make big improvements next year in our team.
Maybe DJ and maybe Creek if learns to get a jump shot or other moves as teams have worked out current ones.
Yes I know we are only supporters but most posters said from selection team was too small and Clarke did not try to rectify even when could (Howard) and virtually each week we get burnt on and around boards.
I dont believe Shannon is a keeper for next year I can stand and hold the ball so why pay a import to do.
Marty should get someone to help pick imports nil out of 4 no good average
Bit of a concern also when go through list of players that could form large part of new team
Bruce , Carter , Hill , Herbert,Creek, Dowdell, Holmes where none of them are dangerous shooters or keen to be so .
If it has been huge downer for us how bad for SOS group I really feel for these guys in a year that promised

oh no dj didnt start with those fadeway or turnaround jumpers again?

has athletic potential but is basketball retarded. needs to be drilled marine style, day in day out until he gets it.

shooters need to be creative to create space for the shot i.e, through ball movement to get open look but if not and balls in your hands then other options ala fadeaway turnaround step back off dribble are all to create space for shot. ABSOLUTELY no reason for a 7footer to create space for the shot. when you are that close to the ring there is no need to square up the shoulders and take a jump shot, the hook shot with the defender on one side use other hand @#$% sake dj watch the centres of the 90's ewing, olajuwon, robinson will all be inducted into hall of fame that was their major weapon!

Bruce and Herbert are both decent shooters and could both improve on their previous season.

I like Tornado's suggested team and getting Schensch back would be great and i guess if that fails go for a import big. Always good to get a top SA player back for me the ideal would be (even though very unlikely) to grab someone like Newley back in the import 2/3 spot and go with a all Aussie line up, fans would also love Newley and Schenscher 2 top SA boys playing for the 36ers also.

Clarkes import selection has been concerning, but DeVries if healthy was ok and Shannon is ok so he is more like 2/4, Winder was also a good player, just played out of position and didnt fit the role Clarke wanted him to. Since we have had no luck selecting import 2/3s id like them to grab a propper SF or an athletic 3/4, and i think they will be a better fit for the team anyway.

Progress has been made on last season and i can see Bruce, Johnson, Creek, Hill and Dowdell all improving next year, if we get Schenscher (or a better import) in for Howard thats a upgrade, and if Herbert, Carter, Ng all stay injury free thats improvement to. So IMO we are making steps in the right direction, just need to retain some of our good young players, try and recruit a top line Aussie like a Schenscher or whatever top Aussies are available, and see if we can improve import selections (get Cal Bruton to help, he had some golden ones over the years) or get top line Aussies instead of imports we should be in the playoff mix next year.

Tornado, well said. It doesn't help the team if everyone is slamming the coach and players all the time. I really hope none of them read this forum!

I agree with you about going for someone like Schenscher instead of a second import. I think that could be a good option, although I would prefer a more mobile centre from a defensive standpoint (eg Khazzouh, but doubt he would come here so meh).

I don't think I'd go for a small forward import though. I think Hill is gradually getting better and will be a decent stop gap until Creek is ready to start. If you bring an import SF in, you are basically limiting Creek's minutes at his natural position.

I'd prefer to go with an import PG who can do it all. Shannon is not bad, but his defence is worrying me. In an ideal world we'd sign a Homicide, McKee or Ervin next season.

Isaac, I totally agree about us breaking down on defence due to our inability to negotiate screens.

We seem far too willing to switch, even when it is unnecessary, and our guys just have zero idea of how to show on the screen and cover the passing angle until they can recover to pick up their man. Balls is one that really struggles to do this against quicker opponents like Wilkinson (and that is why he killed us in Adelaide).

They need to watch the Celtics play. Garnett in particular is an absolute master of showing on the screen and then recovering to his man. To be fair, we'll never do it as well as them, as our guys have nowhere near the experience and don't spend anywhere near as much time working on basketball, but we could at least learn a fair bit about playing the angles!

Yea Garry Ervin would be awesome if we could get him!

Its a pity the Hodge situation turned out like it did as he would be a great fit for our team and next years team as our import guard, could start him at SG and have him spend time at the 1/2/3 spots supported well by Bruce, Carter, Hill, Creek, Herbert and Ng. If only we could find someone of similar ability who wants to play here.

I went for a 3 or athletic 3/4 as we need more rebounding which they could help and Hill could always play some minutes in the SG rotation in order to maintain Creeks minutes and development, but yea would love to see a top import PG like a Gary Ervin here as our import.

I noticed the Hawks against the Blaze would switch without thought and then rarely had trouble correcting match-up problems if the opportunity were there.

Last night, any time the defending big chased our handler out, Shannon/whoever would just take it rather than trying to exploit the switch or that the big (e.g., Wilkinson) was miles from the basket. I think passing straight down to someone in the key would've been picked off, but a bit of movement could've created a cleaner pass or got someone open in the corner. Might be wrong, but I don't recall much movement while the carrier was getting forced so far from the basket.

Jonno, good point about imports being 2/4. We were unlucky with DeVries injury, I reckon he would have been doing pretty well by now playing off Shannon rather than Winder. I think his shooting and passing game is preferable to Howard's slashing game as well.

With regard to getting more rebounding from the SF spot, I don't think it is pure rebounding that is the problem. I'm pretty sure it is our defence. Our players get dragged out of position too easily and we switch too much. As a result, they either can't put a body on their man or someone like Shannon ends up trying to box out an Abercrombie or Boucher or Vukona. With defensive organisation, I think you'll find our boxing out and rebounding will improve a lot.

Isaac, yes the Hawks switch a lot and get away with it, but thats partly because they work as a unit to cover mismatches better and partly because they have good size at every position bar PG.

I remember expecting Howard to bust out against the Hawks because Campbell would have to guard him. But I was wrong, the Hawks played smart and there was always someone there to close the driving lane when Howard tried to beat Campbell off the dribble.

The Sixers, on the other hand, aren't experienced enough to cover for each other and too many of our guys can be easily exploited defensively due to lack of height, strength or quickness.

Good point about us not exploiting their big men when they chase too far out as well Isaac. There isn't enough movement. When they come out and force Shannon or whoever to dribble east-west outside the 3 point line, someone needs to come out and give the ball-handler a quick passing option. When they receive the ball, they should be able to make a quick second pass into the key before the big man can recover (especially if its someone like Pledger). We just don't recognise this stuff fast enough and act on it very often though.

Think Tornado and even Johnnos hinted team has too many players especially guards .
Marty will have to make decision re who wants to keep and then either chase import SG or PG .
Personally would lean for a SG as if keep Bruce and Carter can do ball carrying duties.
Do agree that need big centre and better use of $ to steal a Australian than gamble on centre import.
Although Dowdell has done a ok job this year cannot see room for another centre ,DJ and Ballinger and Holmes. Although he might do Holmes job to save $ to get right centre.

You are right, Bretts, there will need to be some tough decisions taken to get a better balance to the team.

For example, I think both Carter and Bruce have potential, but I'm not sure either is good enough at creating shots for others. Hence I think we need a gun import PG, with one or the other of Carter and Bruce coming off the bench. Unfortunately in that scenario, I think we'd have to let one of the two go.

Also, if we take Herbert back next year, one out of Hill and Ng would have to go I think. Its really difficult, because outside of Balls, Ng is the only really good shooter on the team. But physically he struggles to matchup defensively and we rarely get full value from his shooting because he can't really create off the dribble and our team is bloody hopeless and getting him open off screens!

On the other hand, Hill has better physical tools and the capacity to do more on a basketball court than Ng, but he tends to try to do too much at times and doesn't finish at the rim as well as he should do IMO. Too many players are able to body him and nudge him just enough to put his shot off, which is really frustrating to watch.

If we got Schenscher or another top centre, then we'd want to keep Balls and Johnson, but one of Holmes or Dowdell would have to go. Holmes' defence, rebounding and experience is useful, but would he want to be the 2nd big off the bench?

Funny, Johnson has scoring power but lacks hustle on the boards; Holmes can't shoot for jack but can get any board he wants.

Gene-splicing will solve our problems!

Bean, I think Holmes would play whatever role he had to - the league has good coverage at PF so the ball would be in Adelaide's court.

I would like to see his +/- for games over the season.

You're certainly into the whole +/- bit at the moment.

Loco, I am just wondering what combination of players out there is holding us back. As I have said a few times, we've struggled on the road (and generally) through three recent coaches, through a succession of imports, etc. Makes me wonder about common elements and while they haven't been common to every season, guys like Ng, Hill, Holmes and Ballinger fall into that group. At some point you can't be surprised by the same results if you keep running with the same side.

Someone has told me that they're convinced it's Holmes. Obviously Ng and Hill have more than their share of detractors. It's easy to look at Hill's game last night and put a big share of the result on his shoulders but +/- (especially over the course of a season) is harder to argue with. Is that +5 an anomaly?

I know that when ProWess did the league stats, the 36ers each got scouting reports before facing an opponent and that showed the most successful on-court combinations among other things. I'd be interested to know what methods besides tape and gut-feel they use now to see what's working and what's not.

You know when we lost by 19 in Melbourne on January 2? Brad Hill in that game, +6. He played the second highest minutes in the team. You can see why I am intrigued!

Isaac - I have been sitting here going through the play-by-play for each of the Sixers games so far this season (only managed to go through the first 6 games so far) and calculating the +/- rating of Holmes in each of these games.

So far I have:

Game 1 vs Wildcats -6
Game 2 @ Taipans -2
Game 3 vs Hawks +2
Game 4 vs Kings +7
Game 5 vs Breakers 0
Game 6 @ Taipans -4

Don't tell me it's just DJ's slight frame. It's his ridiculously soft mentality.

Look at Abercrombie. He's no stronger than DJ, and he's much shorter. But he actually shows some balls and attacks the rim rather than putting up soft fadeaways. Unlike, DJ, it looks like he actually gives a shit about getting a rebound every now and then too. You could say it's an unfair comparison due to Abercrombie's superior athleticism, but DJ's no lumberer either. If he has the aggression and puts in the effort then he DOES have the physical attributes to go straight up under the rim, be some sort of factor on D and maybe grab a board sometimes. Too much to ask?

There's no denying his potential, that's what's so god damn frustrating. I'd have him at the 36ers until he realizes that potential, but I'd sure love it if he could get a move on. Rewarding him with minutes he doesn't deserve isn't the answer, what kind of message does that send?

"Basketball retarded" is a fitting description.

clarky, probably worth noting the resulting scoreline alongside. e.g., if we win by 10, then +2 isn't the best. If we lost by 14, then +2 wouldn't be too bad.

You'll have to recheck, but I think he was -10 in the loss in Melbourne. Balls -5, Creek -14, Howard -8, Johnson -15 or worse (can't remember if I stopped counting!). Will take us forever to do all players in all games. Trying to think if there's an easy script I can write to parse play-by-play files and work it out or if I should just buy access to Pro-Stats.

You are a hard man X . Apart from fades and softness Dj has some technical faults and usually last to focus too much on those .
But why does a 7ft hold the ball at his waist so long . I still believe he can get there.
Isaac raised good points re why our base team last couple of years not getting us in right direction .
Sorry have not got minuses and plusses but have a thought and might have more say on next week .
Leadership

Isaac - I'm doing it the old fashioned way (writing down what time he subs in/out, game score at the time, lead margin, +/- for the time he was on & running total of his +/-)

I have now finished working out the +/- for Jacob Holmes in every game so far this season:

Game 1 vs Wildcats -6 (Won by 5)
Game 2 @ Taipans -2 (Lost by 11)
Game 3 vs Hawks +2 (Lost by 14)
Game 4 vs Kings +7 (Won by 12)
Game 5 vs Breakers 0 (Lost by 4)
Game 6 @ Taipans -4 (Lost by 16)
Game 7 @ Crocs -14 (Lost by 4)
Game 8 vs Crocs 0 (Won by 13)
Game 9 @ Hawks -4 (Lost by 2)
Game 10 vs Kings +11 (Won by 4)
Game 11 vs Crocs -10 (Lost by 2)
Game 12 vs Hawks +20 (Won by 15)
Game 13 @ Tigers -10 (Lost by 21)
Game 14 vs Breakers -11 (Lost by 5)
Game 15 vs Blaze +8 (Won by 7)
Game 16 @ Breakers +1 (Lost by 14)

Overall (unless I calculated wrong) so far this season Holmes has a total +/- of -11.

I noticed while I was doing this that before the injury, Rhys Carter was part of some runs that would have seen him finish games with around +10 or so (on court when we erased deficits/gained leads).

Cheers Clarky!

Anon, correct.

Clarky, I noticed that too. Not sure if Carter would always be positive but he seems to key a few runs.

If I can be bothered to take the time, I might go through and work out the +/- of all the Sixers players in each game.

For some reason I have a feeling that the overall leader in cumulative +/- is going to be Dowdell....

I said it last week and got shot down so I am going to say it again

The sixers suck

This is the team I would like to see playing for us next year

Guards. Ervin/ Madgen / Carter/ weigh

Forwards. Creek / Ballinger/ import/ Forman

Centers. Shenscher / Johnson

Might have to open the cheque books and fire the recruitment manager to get it done though

Statman, we've had 8 years of next year. We shouldn't be looking towards tomorrow because tomorrow never comes. We have to play to succeed today.

What makes you think they're not spending the cap now?

And I wouldn't bet that ownership options pop up that frequently. I don't recall SOS having much competition when they took the club from Hemmerling. The 36ers woes (lack of confidence, weak on the road, etc) predate the current ownership group. The year we blew out the cap (last time Bruce was here), we weren't too convincing on court either.

We came 6th that year - more teams made the playoffs than didn't. We're a game off 6th right now. And that season was expensive. I think you are overestimating the impact of cost (and that the club is underspending) on the on-court fortunes of the team. They've replaced two imports and brought in Bruce temporarily.

That expensive year we went 11 and 3 at home
and 3 and 11 away.
Pretty good team here, but no good on the road
as has been the case for many years
We don't know how to travel

We're going to have to agree to disagree because I just do not think that the budget is the primary problem here, just as it wasn't previously. The two greatest problems that recent 36ers teams have are not really money-related. IMO: team defence and on-court leadership.

more teams made the playoffs than didn't. We're a game off 6th right now.

Hawks had the cheapest roster in the league last year and made the granny. So budget is irelevant to winning. Ballinger is supposedly one of the best paid players and add two imports you could see how last year squad and this years would have been near the cap.