I am all for the refs but I think all this talk is just harming not helping the cause.

You're a twat mate! let you son do what he wants to do. You dont do it for the money, you do it for the love of the game! Everyone starts at the same place, you take away refs because of "how much their getting paid" you wont have any referees coming through to do Reserves/ABL/NBL etc. You will have a cry if NBL didnt have good referees, How do you expect kids to get there? they havta start somewhere

You do it for the love of the game you twat!

By the end of this year,a number of basketball referees will quit,the abuse coaches give towards young referees is appalling,the pay is crap.Referees cant focus on trail when you have a coach screaming in your ear every second for a TRAVEL OR FOUL.I watched U10 Game at Port Adelaide last sat and saw a coach with a lollipop in his mouth and see him abuse a green shirter female umpire,if i had my way i would have told him to shut up and sit down.

I agree i think they should get paid more.

I am sure the kids at Minda get paid less than $6.67 per hour so really, no ref should ever be complaining.

winitinaminute: he yelled at the grey shirt not the green shirt

techfoul17 what's up with the massive fit 'Fair go' he is putting across his opinion, nothing wrong with that

fair go

You have to walk before you run,

You realy mean he got paid $13.3333(x3 = $40) for a 40min game which is not bad, As he gets better he might get more games and get paid more...

A first year plumber is almost paid that and he has to dig holes,and all the shitty jobs out in the elements so $13 for 40 mins is not that bad and if he wants to make a living it wont happen being a reff.

And I think we would all love to get paid travelling to work, (i would find the longest way to get there )and sitting around inbetween jobs,that would be nice...

Kids love being refs because they can take the piss out and have a ripper time doing it to whoever they please.

Fair Go, tell him to pack a lunch, works for me!

I'd referee:
Coz I want to,
for the love of the game,
Coz I enjoy it,
Coz I enjoy working with the people I work with.

Why did/do I coach:
Coz I want to,
for the love of the game,
Coz I enjoy it,
Coz I enjoy working with the people I work with, and
for the pay... Oh, thats right! I've never been paid to coach!

If the poor fella doesn't like it, tell him Macca D's are hiring.

I'm not defending umpire abuse, just pointing out reasons why I hope your lad is involved in basketball.

omg winitinaminute, thank you so much I have not laughed so hard in a long time, the coach in question would no more "abuse" an umpire (especially a green shirt) than Justin Bieber is likely to have a long career ahead of him. I would love to know what game you were actually watching, cos it certainly was not the U10s. Please clarify the abuse you claim occurred?

Alrite i would like to start of by saying this; Blake (techfoul17) please for everyones sake, shut up and at least act civilized on this site. Calling someone a twat when you don't know them is really not the way to go. Not once did fair go say that he is discouraging his son to stop refereeing, he is simply stating that he does not understand why he does it. So please, please shut up and stop being an immature poster.

Secondly, back to the topic. Whilst i agree with Fair go to an extent, i do not agree that referees should get paid for travel, not many jobs pay for travel. However he does raise a point about the time that they are not refereeing, i am not saying give them a match rate, but even if its $10 to get something to eat it at least means it doesn't come out of their pay for the day. These kids (and adults) are there from 5 30 til 11 so the least they deserve is a few bucks to buy a pie.

TC2 - Would you be happy being paid $6.67? This has nothing to do with how much other people earn, this is about the referee pay rate which in my opinion is to low for such a tough job (yes i do referee myself) Especially under the conditions in which it is with all the yelling, constant questioning and large amount of physical and mental work.

One last thing for now,

Pickles you are right in a way, most referees ref for the love of the game, but when you are a student (either high school or uni) and money is very tight you start to wonder if that time you put into refereeing is worth the time for the amount of money or whether it would be a smarter decision to find another job (i personally would never work at maccas or a fast food place) so that would not be an option for me.

It is not so much about why people ref, its about why the stop refereeing, because in the long run it is not about the love for the game it is about life decisions. Which in high school or uni are very important but also very hard.

I referee first and foremost because I do love the game. Playing, spectating and refereeing, although I have never coached i'm sure i would enjoy it. I referee because it helps me with my personal development and the fitness and learning aspects of the game. I want to referee nbl, I want to get my fiba badge, I want to referee world championships, I want to referee at the olympics, I want to referee college ball, I want to referee NBA. I aspire to be the best referee I can be. These are the reasons I referee.

My son loves the game, and has been reffing for more than 5 years.
He has done a few ABA games, so I would say that he is fairly competant.
He goes to meetings and also trainings which he does not get paid for at all.

He is very disallusioned with the whole set up.
Instead of walking away, one should address the issues.
Some of the responses have been very immature and disappointing.

There is definately a problem getting well qualified refs at all levels, and it should be addressed.

fair go, I am not saying they should not be addressed I just have the problem with them being addressed on here.

Express your views to Mike Gibson websites where anyone can view their opinion and some of it not being very informed or opinions coming from people who will never believe that a referee or an umpire in any sport is doing a good job is not the place to get any type of realistic feedback. the more it gets posted on here the more the argument for an against umpires will continue.

Therefore it becomes a self perpetuating problem. Stop the cycle stop complaining or commenting on hoops go to Mike Gibson, go to the meetings be part of the solution to fixing it instead of giving a balanced view to 80% of the audience who want to howl you down.

one comment - six answers, one reply, another six answers - no replies no further answers - start to do this in house and IMO that would be a better solution.

Fair Go - I am also a senior referee who has stepped back into Basketball SA after refereeing Big V & SEABL for the last 2 years.

Therre are some changes going on to try and stabalise the setup. If he is disillusioned with the setup - he should go speak to Mike Gibson, or speak to Trevor Baker, Chris Clarke or Michael Birkin quietly after one on the Panel meetings to voice his concern.

If he feels he cant do that, he can speak with me (he should be able to figure out who I am from my initials) or another Senior referee like Benn Mac, Andrew Filmer to get a balanced Idea of what is happening.

He can contact me at [email protected] if he likes.

This whole topic sums up this forum perfectly. I come on here to find things I may have missed in local and intl. bball but occassionally have a read at these ones but rarely comment.

Firstly, 'Fair Go' someone every month or so makes a thread about why anyone would want to umpire; the relatively poor pay for little respect or reward, the abuse etc. I don't know why you bother.

TechFoul17 has made a perfectly good example of exactly why you don't post these sort of topics on this forum. Idiots like him come in and just call you a twat for caring for your sons wellbeing and having concern for the job he has chosen. TechFoul 17 nothing stated above warranted that sort of response and it's 'regular' posters like you on this forum which makes this site have less credibility than being able to post without registering and being able to stay anonymous (like im abusing right now). Back to my point 'fair go', this site has no credibility as a real forum for real local issues in umpiring like you've stated it's just an excuse for the bogans of our local game to get on and bag anyone who posts a topic they've seen a few times over and they get to rant on why they hate refs and compare them to kids at MINDA.

If I were you, I would bring this up with Basketball SA. I suspect you wont get far as they are stubbourn and have a set goal and like band-aiding issues like the ones you've mentioned by putting in policies they don't follow through on and pretending to 'crack-down' on abuse. But you'll get further with them and at least a professional form of discussion rather than posting on this site.

Theirs by-laws and code of coduct in place, and no where in it does it tolerate abuse from anyone, I suggest he reads up on it, puts it in place and deals with people within the rules of the game as they're stated. If senior refs or others have issue with this he should bring it up higher and question why then it exists. I have seen these rules and policies in place for too long, most recently the updated code of conduct yet it is so inconsistently enforced coaches, parents etc. push the envelope and generally get away with it.

Then the low wages that you start off with would be more enjoyably and easily made. It seems like a lot less when you have to put up with the crap that I constantly see every weekend at stadiums everywhere. The best referees are the ones who aren't afraid to not take it, that communicate effectively and properly and follow through consistently. I'd take up on the offer of 'MP' above and get your son to speak to him/her.

I understand at a young age money is something which is important because it's few and far between. If this is the main reason he's refereeing he probably wont last long, other teen jobs pay similar wage to what you say and don't have the potential for idiots to get in your face every night you go to work, but then again most teen jobs arent glamorous. If you love basketball its not so bad a teen job compared to others you could be doing.

Also where is the site admin enforcing the terms of use on techfoul17?

Techfoul17 knows he is skating on thin ice and has been warned before.

The situation is getting worse and I hope Pep is correct that things are going to be looked at and changed.

Many refs including my child are so over the crap, abuse, politics and I dont think they will return willingly.

Lots of work to do and I hope everyone give Mike their cooperation to make thing move onwards.

I was watching the u10 girls on court 3 forestville against west,i add i would have stuck the lollipop down his throat then that will keep him quiet,his abuse stinks.if u get abused then refer him to UIC at half time.

and again the question, specifics please, what abuse??? I think you use the term "abuse" way too freely, the coach asked questions of the senior umpire on court, that was it.

So threatening to shove a lollipop down someone throats is acceptable behaviour is it?

Why some refs get abused.!

I have witnessed Junior games where the refs have affected the result significantly.

A few examples of the more blatant.

In recent times I have watched a game where the ref fouled a player off and then went to the opposing coach and asked "who do you want next?"

I have seen a ref call a foul on a player and tell him that he is out of here as that is your fifth. In this case it was the fourth but it begs the question as to why the ref is so interested in an individual's foul count? Needless to say the fifth was not far away.

I have heard a ref tell a coach (whispered) that he is on court to ensure the side does not win.

These are a few of many instances and as one of the paying parents it is difficult to understand how these few refs can get satisfaction from being biased. I assume it is some sort of power kick.

It does not help the game and these few make it more difficult for the refs doing a good job to maintain credibility.

Perhaps someone could explain.

Here you go people. Here is the link to apply.

Either put up or shut up.

http://linky.com.au/vm0gy

The question to ask is as follows:

Who is going to be training these umpires?

Is Mike doing the training or is he bringing in appropriately qualified trainers to teach young people how to umpire?

If he is bringing in people, does BSA have the money to pay for it?

I suspect that because BSA pay a full time wage to Mike, there is no money to spend on actualy educating young umpires.....

if you end up with level 2 umpires training me on how to umpire and get my level 1 then chances are I am going to end up being as good as that level 2 person.....and that is the problem

I would be happy to be told otherwise by one of the people who simply say "put up or shut up"

Anon, you may want to actually speak to some referees before you make the comment we bitch about each other - you will find it is a close knit community and whilst there are some that do go down that path you will find the majority pleasant enough to speak to, and that we are also concerned with trying to actuall lift the level refereeing.

What doesn't help is people like you commenting on something they probably know nothing about.

I am referring to anon post #287666

since this directive came out from the powers that be a few weeks ago there has been a definite shift in umpiring style across the board.. I lament the loss of the most important facet of umpire/player relations -COMMUNICATION. Those who have played the game would know that the best umpires were those in constant communication with the players, explaining calls,warnings ,encouraging. Now we have the disastrous outcome of umpires who are beyond reproach. All their calls are 100% on the money and can be neither questioned or queried. This has only further alienated umpires from coaches and players. Enjoy the view from the top of the ivory castle!

i agree with anon#699 allow referees to yell back at the parents.
one night these parents were complaining about 3 seconds of an under 16 div 5 player standing on the line of (ON THE LINE) of the key, by the end of the game i got sick of it by the time the parents yelled "HOW LONG!" i yelled back "12 INCHES" my god was there an uproar then!!! but did it feel good? HELL YES! Would i do it again? HELL YES! should it be allowed? HELL YES!! even if its only for a week

If there is this much problems with coaches and parents why doesn't the UIC get of their butts and actually speak to these parents / coaches about the way they are speaking to these young referee's.

We constantly speak about a zone tolerance policy but it seems that they are never enforcing it.

Grow some balls and start throwing these stupid parents out. It is more embarrassing for these parents to be removed from the game than any fine or being banned for two weeks. Throw them out in a public way and I think you will find these wanker parents will quickly change their ways.

and then it will come back at how they got kicked out because they complained and it was so soft.
Anon#678 if two umpires turn up??? if we had enough to field two per game sometimes it just doesnt happen, you just have to deal

if we are going to throw out stupid parents, then maybe we should throw out stupid ref's. The so called abuse I here is never personal, it calls of foul or how long ect. If the ref's cant deal with this then we have a major problem BSA might want to issue gags to all spectators, because that is the only way you stop them. Then it will be a game with no atmosphere. How fun!!!

That sort of abuse should not be tolerated. Calls out to a ref during a game, i dont have a problem with. But verbal abuse and threatening behaviour face to face needs to go.Players should be suspended for this sort of behaviour!

As a parent, all I want from a ref is to keep control of the game so that players don't get injured.

Last week- child pushed in the back and splattered onto the court. Both refs looking at each other- "What happened?". After child scraped off court and iced the refs resumed with a jump ball- ? what- The "pushing" child has a self satisfied look- Yep got away with that so I'll try it out again.....