I highly doubt that your cynical rant is a realistic description of what the referee evaluators do at matches. They serve an extremely important role in referee development - one that you seem to have discounted to merely 'smashing down cokes and pies'.

And if you really want to have a go at evaluators, then don't make the ridiculous claim that we would be in any better of a position if the coaches(!) evaluated the refs instead!!

The boxscore isn't quite your analysis of a players' performance (just some data). It's the discussion in the changerooms or at player-coach meetings, you know - those things that aren't usually made public...

probably agree since same old same old - referees who continually make wrong calls bad positions appear uninterested - cheap cop out didnt see not my zone and still dont seem to make adjustments-
in all job spec reviews are important learning tools aspects to nuture and growth - evaluate and then improve

ANON. As Astor stated - I don't know where your rant came from, but you obviously have no idea what the evaluators role is.
Your suggestion that coaches evaluate the referees lacks credibility due to the fact that one coach will think they did a great job (the winner) and the other coach will think they did a lousy job (the loser). This idea has been tried before, in several states, and invariably becomes one sided, particularly given the fact that some coaches do not have a full understanding of the rules.
You mentioned about making a few notes on a clipboard.
This is actually factual given that the evaluators no longer are required to complete a Bunn Sheet (call by call record). This IMO has made it easier for the evaluator to concentrate on the game (rather than miss calls while writing).
The most important part of the evaluators job is the after game conference. If you believe that evaluators only praise the referees then you are mistaken in the extreme. Whether a referee accepts or rejects the comments in the conference are another matter (and some referees don't). However, if a referee continues to ignore advice and constructive criticism then they should be penalised (dropped from roster). Certainly there is room for improvement amongst the current crop of referees but IMO the evaluators a doing a good job and are trying to upgrade that standard.

Ref Evaluators are generally quite approachable, and willing to discuss issues that have arisen during the game with coaches.

It's not that hard to elicit a general idication from an ref eval after a game. It's not stats, but similar.

I'm curious as to ANON's involvement in basketball if they aren't aware of what the Ref Evals actually do.

For what started out as a slur on Ref Coaches I like this discusion.....

What about this:

For ABA only....



- End of the game the Ref Coach should provide the two head coaches with there top three areas for the officials to work on and an indication as to if the officials performed below the level, at the level or above the level of the game?

For example the Ref Coach might hand a form to each coach which says:

From this game the officials will be coached on

1. Better management to avoid a Tech foul
2. More consistant calling required on hand checking
3. Discusion required relating to match up of Pero v Holmes......

In general my opinion is the officials were at the level of the players in this game

Any questions from the coach or anything to add which could help in improving the performance should be put in writing within 48 hours and prior to the Ref coach completing the report.

A referee evaluator is essentially a referee coach - and provides an assessment of how each referee called the game at hand.

From my own personal experience there are good and bad - just like any coach I guess. But their job is to provide an assessment of their performance, including constructive criticism for them to work on.

However it is still up to the referee's to put in the effort to improve themselves.

Sorry, but why should the Evaluators or coaches have to provide a report about the referee's to each other. If a coach has a real concern then the coaches can go up to the Evaluator and have a polite discussion.

Lets face facts that the current stock of referees coming through are well below par. BUT thats what we are stuck with for the next few season or unless past referees like Tristan G, John Clover, Daniel H(noddy), Daniel H (Smiley), Josh (porno) come back. And thats not gunna happen anytime soon.

I agree that from discussions that I have had with referee's that some of the Evaluators have gone soft, but that could be because they are worried that these young referee's put into these positions way before their time could quit leaving us in even more of a shitty position.

I come back to the age old saying "Either put up or shut up". Of which I am seriously considering doing lately.

I am told that evaluators do reports for each game they attend which is supplied to BSA and are stored in the little bag below the shredder as BSA think they are BS. When you have management which act like that what can you expect? I believe this lack of respect to umpiring is also one of the reasons BSA are looking for another referee development manager

ENONYMOUS. I'm not too sure about where the reports go, but your point regarding the Referee Manager is relevant. For too long BSA staff only pay lip service to refereeing matters. This can be highlighted in the real reason why Nathan quit his position as the referee manager. My information is that Nathan had some great ideas and direction for referees in SA, but BSA could not, or would not, be bothered implementing any of the stategies.

So why pay these ref evaluators if they are toothless and most of the current referees dont listen to them anyway??

Thats what everyone is saying.

Funnily enoughm they are all past refs who have lead to the current lack of professional culture in refereeing that has lead to the current issues in the sport.

Until BSA and te refs themselves accept that they need to improve rather than try and get people to stop having a go at their bad performance we wont get anywhere.

nathan was best thing to happen but no vision - need to get nathan and his type having more say to direct build guide - i suggest Durrant Filmer are the sort / types to be leading the pack - knowledge communicators

Perhaps some of these 'rookie refs" could make the effort to head out to an ABA training session and ump the scrimmage session. No pressure if the make a bad call, would be a great learning curve for them and im sure any ABA coach would appreciate it.
Something needs to be done to improve the standard
Listening to an evaluator go blah blah blah after a game isnt going to improve an umpires decision making.

some people are clueless

Not sure why people make stuff up but I am quite sure Wieland quit because he only had so much time away from his real profesional career which is I.T

Perhaps, he is more suited to I.T than training/development type roll

Hope BSA find a good replacement because it is important they find someone with a vision for the future.

I noticed the AFL Umpires boss on "one week at a time" last night and he was very protective of the AFL umpires even stating that all ten 50 metre penalties in the Richmond game were correct.

Technicly maybe, but I think both basketball and footy need someone in this type of roll who has good experience as a previous head coach and umpiring experience also.

Stepping over a mark by a cm hardly is a good reason to give a bloke a 50m penalty imo

It shows no feel for the game

see how much vision Benn Macdonald has in the role

(Team Player) tried refing training matches but you still get abused,and teams dont appreciate it. The only team that appreciated it were the lightining girls as well as the Country State teams that are happy topay refs for the their time. This would be the only two teams I'd go out to help.

Basketball is now too opinion based. The whole game of Basketball is to shoot the ball in your opponents basket. You all keep wondering why refs go week in week out not wanting to give it their all. This is because were all sick of the abuse,from junior level to higher levels. You all rave on about how bad the refing is, but yet none of you what to step up to the plate.

Team player I really hope your not a current referee because your attitude is wrong in step up to the plate... SC has it right in saying that the current crop is well below par, and this is due to those senior referes quiting and the favourtism shown towards some referees. We need honesty from evaluators which I don't think is happening often enough. It comes back to the fact that the referee shortage meaning that there is no competition for referees to fight for their spot. 5 or more years ago for a referee to progress thru the ranks they had to prove themselves, from juniors to seniors, to div 2 then aba. As it stands at the moment if your available you get rostered regardless of if your good enough or deserve it, it has become a case of just getting games covered. Until referees need to fight for their games I highly doubt that the quality is going to improve.

Better the Devel - Is that a joke or serious?

Serious

I have been a coach, player and umpire at Senior Level. Throughout my whole time as a ref I was given told by only one evaluator (prominent young NBL ref) that I had a shit game. Now I know other evaluators have told me that I had great games when I actually had a shocker. And whilst I took the bad (shit) criticsm poorly at the time, I was a better ref after the tourney because of it. Personally I think everyone is afraid to say it like it is

There will be an increase in district player admission soon ,that will assist to pay evaluators when then they leave.Heard this from insider.Evaluators help few not all.Most District Games at Pasadena,why dont the evaluate the GOLDEN BOY from pasadena,he claim to be the stadiums best umpire they have ever had in last 10 years.

Referee Coaches are valuable.

Trust that good things are happening.

Be positive, not negative.

If you don't like it, don't sit here and post anonymously - pick up the phone or e-mail someone who can actually do something about it.

What like nathan did,(the referee manager) - or was he no given the opportunity to?

Ceres 77
This site is a forum for what people think.
Perhaps BSA need to actually make good things happen instead of just talk.

Talk is cheap my friend

Simply evaluate referees and get them to be accountable for poor performances. Critical reflection on the game called - includes identififying areas for growth - this is the point never seems to be any accountablity that performance are not up to high standardws expected - refrees can even say to players end of game i umpired poorly yet not follow up occurs to rectify. so next time players grizzle because umpire feeling slack again.Perform you do get paid to perform unlike the players.
#352 your thoughts