*sigh* another pointless thread of people trying to put Kobe over MJ.

Big Marty - looks the other way around to me.

I actaully think this thread just paints Jordan in an even better light...

Best
Thread
EVER

Good thread indeed.

The fact Kobe is even in discussion with MJ is something though. Hasn't been many players over the past 20 years who have even got that close.

Im a lakers fan so im going to argue why Kobe should be considered with MJ

so im disputing the MVP's, Finals MVP and Scoring titles

In each of Kobes 5 championship teams he has been the best skilled player even better the shaq but Shaq was the most dominant player of all time and thats why he got 3 finals MVPs same reason as some people think gasol should of got the last 2 final mvps because he is dominant.

MVPs Look at the competition that Kobe is playing against Lebron James(in a team that makes lebrons stats look better because no one else can score no one else can rebound and lebron is a great passer)
Iverson was a scoring Machine in the early 2000, Nash is an amazing point guard(passing ability is awesome being able to create oppurtunities for others to score)plus he was scoring as well Shaq was the most dominant force of all time

Jordan played in a very competitive era but Kobe is playing against individuals who are more talented then MJs opponents

Same reason as above about the scoring titles better scorers then in MJ era

Gasol played well, but I think "dominant" is a bit of a stretch for a guy scoring 15-18 PPG. Shaq was getting 30 and 15 in 99.

The Banker - I think you are hard pressed to argue that Kobe is playing against better opponents than MJ ever did. Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Hakeem, Ewing, Isiah Thomas etc.

What about if Jordan played in this era with the new handcheck rules? He'd average 40ppg from all the extra free throws. In MJ's era defenders could bump push and hand check the perimeter guys out of position, now you breathe near them and it's a foul.

here's a good question for you all...

Why has Jordan's legacy seemed to have diminished over time, whereas most players in the past appear to get better as you look back on them?

There is Jordan, then a big gap to the rest but people seem to have forgotten how great he really was!!!

I haven't Rod.

Thanks for saving me the time in correcting The Banker, Bizzy.

MJ would have ripped this era even more than he did back then, for all you young bucks get some Jordan games from the late 80's early 90's and watch just how physical he was played and still shot near 50% for career.

Can you imagine what Kobe's flopping antics would be like back then?

I'm not a Kobe fan, but this era I'd have to say yes Kobe is the best (keeping in mind LeBron is still only mid 20's) but he is not Jordan.

Ah, now the good debate starts =D

Rather than compare Kobe's stats to Jordan's stats and try and mirror them; why not ask the question,

"Does Kobe Bryant have the same impact in the modern era of the game as Jordan did during his era?"

You can compare some basic stuff like their clutch shooting and streaky scoring; but as Bizzy said, the defensive game was more physical than today's game. I can certainly say that Kobe would need to take at least 1.5 times as many shots as he does now to score 30ppg against the likes of the Robinsons, Ewings, Barkleys, Hakeems etc.

and Bols, Mutombos, Eatons.

against defenders like Rodman, Dumas, Gerald Wilkins, The Glove, Starks.

I think Kevy47 & Big Marty have made some interesting points - In Jordan's era there were some exceptional big & physical defenders that weren't scared to give up a foul if they got into the lane, not only that but guys guarding the ball actually cared about defence.

Seriously in this day and age how many lock down defenders can you say there is? How many Paytons, Starks, Dumars etc are there?

Not saying that Kobe is better than Jordan but when looking at Kobe's stats, don't forget that he jumped straight from high school unlike Jordan and came into the league when he was younger. He only played 15 minutes a game in his first season and 26 minutes per game in his second and averaged only 7.6 points per game and 15.4 respectively.

It would probably make for a better comparison based on stats to discount the first 2 or 3 seasons of Kobe.

If anyone wants a reminder of how good Jordan was go get a copy of the 1992 semi-conference finals of the Bulls vs the Knicks (can order a copy from Pontel) - one of my favourite playoff series of all time. The Knicks played an ultra-physical style of basketball against the Bulls and Jordan was unbelievable in standing up to the Knicks and leading his team to victory - he played an awesome game 7. So many inspirational plays by Jordan in this series.

No brainer. MJ by a mile.
Not only for the stats etc he put up, but look at who he won with...Wennington, Longley, Perdue (ba ha ha) 40+ Parish and Salley.

How many rings could MJ have ended up with had he played the first seven years of his career with a great center, who was also the most dominant force in the league?

How many titles could MJ have won if he had not taken 18 months off (in between 3-peats) to play baseball?

Could Kobe retire in his prime and then come back, arguably a better player after 18 months out?

Could Kobe retire, then come back as a 39 year old and nearly take a team of misfits to the playoffs?

I don't think he is mentally strong enough to even be considered close to Jordan.

Kobe is good, a great player even.
Mike was/is the greatest.

What some people forget is that MJ was a complete player, played both ends of the court, could shoot, drive, dish, and then get the stop on the defensive end, and on top of this he was a great team player, motivating the team - Kobe is really only a shooter, he defense is pretty ordinary in comparision, and if he doesn't like a team mate, he gets them traded.


One of my favourite memories of Jordan (and someone more clever will point out which game), during a game towards the end, MJ realised the scoretable had the scores wrong as he always kept a mental tally of the scores - when MJ questioned it and the umpires and bench did a count back and found MJ was right - this story highlights how in tune MJ was to the game - can't see Kobe ever doing anything like that, he would be lucky to be able to count to ten ... lol

i am a lakers fan. and a kobe fan. heck, i even named my first born Kobe. seriously.

but the fact it's always MJ that players get compared to, pretty much answers the question for you.

it was " is Vince carter better than Jordan", or "is Stackhouse better than Jordan", or "is kobe better than jordan", now it's "is lebron better than jordan", next it will be "is wall better than jordan".

it's always jordan. therefore, meaning the previous comparee was not better than jordan.

no one will ever be better than jordan.

one word...jordan.

Kobe's favourite song...



? ? ?
Sometimes I dream
That he is me
You've got to see that's how I dream to be
I dream I move, I dream I groove
like Mike, if i could be like Mike

Jordan is so far ahead of Kobe it isn't funny.
Firstly the skills he learnt in college at NC set him appart from Kobe, who averaged just 10ppg as a rookie without the fundamentals Jordan had in his first season in the NBA.
Throughout his career Jordan also won the defensive player of the year award and was a multiple all-defensive selection.
Jordan also never played with a centre who averaged more than 11ppg.
He had the likes of Dave Corzine, Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, Stacey King, Luc Longley and Bill Wennington.
These players knew their roles, but could you imagine what Jordan might have done if he had a David Robinson, Olajuwon or Ewing next to him?
Kobe got better while he had Shaq as a teammate and was never the number one option on the team until the big fella was traded to the Heat - which Kobe demanded.
Jordan was also a superior scorer and has to be considered the most effective low post scorer from the guard position the game has ever seen.
And remember Jordan went up against the Joe D, Laimbeer, Thomas and the rest of the Bad Boys who smashed him for three consecutive seasons, Patrick Ewing and the Knicks who always had a no lay up rule, Karl Malone, Magic, Bird and the Celtics, Barkley, he schooled Clyde Drexler in the finals, broke the hearts of the Cavs many times when they had Price and Brad Daugherty, always put on a show in MSG, beat very good Indiana teams in the late 90s and had to guard point guards a lot of the time.
Kobe is very good, but will never be considered on the same level as Jordan.

There was only one Michaeal Jordon so much so that I think Kobe has even based most of his moves on Jordan even down to Jordans trademark tongue, to the way he speaks. For those of you too young to know do yourself a favour and go back in time and watch as much as you can and you will see the that Kobe is MJ all over, atleast Lebron's game is something new and not a copycat