Jack
It is a poorly timed tournament, that has become nothing more than a revenue raiser for BSA.

I think Sturt do a great job winning in May. They are a great club. But for me, I would like to know the best team at the end of the year, in a tournament format. It is ridiculous that teams are expected to peak at the end of the first summer round, so that they can get the right seed for the winter champs. It compromises all learning principles, that you would assess learning, in about the first 25 % of the curriculum/program.
Imagine doing year 12 exams in may?

Either get rid of the whole thing, which no-one would miss, or place it at the end of the season where it means something.

Jack
As for the farce of seedings, I could come up with a better system in 10 minutes of thought.
The NCAA ranks a whole country with a committee, why cant we get a shitty town like Adelaide right?
Because of parochial bullshit.

Please Change this waste of time and effort!!!!
Signed
Adelaide Basketball Parents

Please change your name from someone who commands respect to your own name or 'post name' Tool!
This carnival does not involve Sam, so don't denigrate her while she is overseas on a break

I am pretty sure no one actually thought Wam Soosnam is in any way associated to Sam. Just like people dont actually think you are physically hanging while surfing the net and using the alias Hanging round

Why not use the summer season as a state champ season? Everyone gets to play everyone once then finals? The winner is the state champs better then pool a & b where everyone don't get to play all teams.

How can accurate selection for classics occur if not held this time of year?

Can't do it in October, cause 14 Nationals is then.

Surely the State Champs and season champs define different things.

1/ who is best at a carnival.

2/ who develops best over a season.

Both equally important things although different.

I feel that if Sturt didnt dominate State Champs people would like it more.

Boys State

Sturt 23 points.
Forestville 9 points
Norwood 9 points
Eastern 4 points
South 4 points
Southern 4 points
Woodville 2 points

Girls State

Forestville 14 points
Sturt 13 points
Norwood 6 points
Southern 6 points
Eastern 5 points
North 5 points
South 4 points
West 2 points

Overall State (Trevor Martin Champion Club award)

Sturt 36 points
Forestville 23 points
Norwood 15 points
Southern 10 points
Eastern 9 points
South 8 points
North 5 points
Woodville 2 points
West 2 points

Reserve Boys

Sturt 16
Forestville 10
Magic 8
Torrens Valley 8
Norwood 2
South 2
West 2
Norwood 2
South 2
Eastern 1
North 1

Reserve Girls

Sturt 18
Forestville 10
Norwood 7
North 5
Magic 5
Southern 4
South 3
Centrals 2
Eastern 1

Overall Reserve Champion Club

Sturt 34
Forestville 20
Magic 13
Norwood 9
Torrens Valley 8
North 6
Southern 5
South 5
West 2
Eastern 2
Centrals 2

Upsets or surprises at any levels ?

HR - "Wam Soosnam" has been posting under that name for a fair while now. As has been said, I don't think anyone would actually think it was Sam. On top of that, while they're critical here, that criticism isn't offered in an offensive way.

Justt wondering if anyone has any theories as to why clubs based South of the city are doing so much better than clubs based North of the city?

My apologies- tiring weekend

Sturt really must have been desperate for state champs success.
When they fly Nicole Seekamp back from AIS for under 21 State and then do not even make the grand final of the premier junior title.
Mesecke must be fuming given he was the coach.

FACILITIES AND ACCESS have huge bearing on success - to the west too many clubs - too the north no vccordinate dev happening. like t or not eagles and sturt are milesin front both on and off court -

If we need State Champs, run it on the Adelaide Cup weekend in March. Summer season should start the week before and Winter season should start the week after.

This would help even the workload on players. The Easter/TI camp/State Champs/Classics peroid is a nightmare for players with niggling injuries - the four tournaments are equivalent to another Winter season.

Classics entry could either be determined by state champs or by the first completed round in Winter season.

Firstly,

If people still can't see that having a full time coaching person isn't the main force behind success then they are crazy.

Forestville and Sturt are the only clubs doing that and are getting success. Wow, thats strange. Good on Norwood for following suit and expect them to get better over the next few years,

And secondly, Sturt have been bringing back their AIS kids for years. I think I remember people trying to stop Jacob Holmes or Laura Summerton from playing years ago cause they weren't playing in regular season.

Why should sturt, or any club that is, do what it takes to gelp these players, then not have them play for their club?

Again, doesn't that just tell all the good kids from other club that if you want to be given opportunities, come to Sturt? That you will get a weekend back with you r family and friends. And that they wont forget you when you have other opportunities. And those kids still back playing in SA get to play with their mate.

I wonder when 5 top level kids move to Sturt again at the end of the season, whether you will all complain about it again without working out why a kids from your clubs has moved because of your kind of atitiude.

And I'm sure Mesecke is probably feeling pretty good about himslef this morning considering they won 5 out of 6 titles and only lost the other by 1 point. Unless that is he has a bit of a hangover.

Dirty Sturty
The only sensible coment in this thread, Sturt has had a fulltime CD for years, Forestville started a year or so ago, now Norwood.
The facts and results demonstrate this beyond any doubt. I would suggest this is the challenge for the rest of the clubs!
I would suggest the clubs without full time CD are subject to the effort of volonteers, hense the cycle theory. Sturt seem to have broken the cycle.
Is Mescke that good, or is it the fact that he is working on the program as a full time position.

As for the rest of your up your arse Sturt shit
WHAT EVER!!!

SO if Sturt have borken the cycle.

And you've got a kid with ambission.

Why would you not bring them to sturt?

Im happy cause it would make my kids team better. Give them more opportunities to go to classics. Make them train harder for their spot. Win/win as far as I'm concerned.

anon #277491

Sturt didn't have a bar, canteen or a stadium for over 18 month when CLG burn't down and they still employed a part time DO

Then when Pas was closed down for 9 month for the floor. Sturt stil employed a full time DO.

Sturt runs Aussie Hoops, City South, does their own uniforms etc. They have created new revenue streams to pay for the position as well as not wasting money in their senior program. It's not every been funded by the bar or canteen.

But other clubs will continue to throw money at their seniors hoping senior success will bring the kids flooding back in. Meanwhile, sturt will keep getting bigger and better.

Im gonna put it put there overall it was a great weekend for BSA and all clubs.

I was thoroughly impressed with the "NEW" Morphett Vale Stadium seeing as this weekend was the first trip ive made down south road all year.

Saw lots of great junior basketball with some really exciting games.

and Congratulations to Sturt for Winning even tho i hate the club. Forestville will beat you next year!

As far as clubs having full time coaching/developement officer, these are always going to be ahead of the pack until the find other ways to boost revenue. And having a good ABL team will never get you anywhere in the juniors.

Is that good for sa basketball that for Sturt to get bigger and stronger.

For the growth of basketball in SA you need all clubs to to be competitive.

So at statechamps presentation it would be far better to have a good spread of all clubs not just sturt and forestville.

Other wise in 5 years or, so how many clubs will the be.

BSA should set up zones assoicated with each club so the good players are spread across all clubs.

Why do you think the AFL has a national draft and SANFL has zones. To keep the competition even and avoid what is happening to junior basketball in sa

As coaches give up their time and noone wants to coach a team that gets beaten by 50 - 60 points each weak.

If a kid is going to make it they will make no matter what club they are from i think that speaks for itself.

If BSA doesnt bring in zones then why not let Sturt just take over it all.

Before I voice my concern with zoning, I have to ask, due to my lack of knowledge, do all the Junior coaches need some sort of accreditation to coach the kids? Or can it just be anyone who wants to commit the time?

The above questions lead to my concern. For, if a really talented young person with masses of untapped potential, was "zoned" to a club with maybe not as good coaching as other clubs had, would that be a huge mistake, not letting him get the coaching he needs to untap that potential?

This is my only concern with the zoning theory, because if it was my son/daughter, i would want him/her to be coached by the best option available, all the time, not just anyone. Maybe BSA/BA could organize a Coaching & Development Officer for each club to oversee this possible problem?

As i said earlier, I don't know what qualifications you need to be a Junior coach, so don't jump down my throat if it seems I'm backing Sturt or Forrestville as I have no affiliation with either....I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Unfortunately, we have digressed a little, but we constantly seem to get onto zoning. Perhaps, a new thread is needed.

My personal thoughts:

* Vic Umpires: Bloody good idea and bloody good. Their umpiring showed how poor ours is. We could learn from them.
* Stadiums: Debacle. Having to travel across the city was a pain. How about BSA copy SAC and base a comp at a stadium, ie U12 boys at Port, U12 girls at Hillcrest etc. Then, rotate the stadiums year by year. Cuts out all the bulls%$t of home games etc. As far as I am concerned, all clubs must host some part of the "state champs"

Eg, let's pick on Mavs. 15 teams, 4 minor round games per team means 60 games. Therefore, they need to host 30 games at their home stadium.

* Finals: All finals should be played at a neutral stadium like the Dome.

Yes, introduce zones and the ranking of the clubs would be - unchanged. The successful clubs will do better at development within their zone, development of existing players, recruitment within allowable exemptions and policing the zone infringements of other clubs.

Oh, coaching directors would also have huge houses because there would be 200 kids registered at that address.

Don't worry about a zone - just ban clearances. If you start with a club, you stay with the club for life. Sit back & watch the sport decline as disgruntled kids (parents) leave the sport.

The recruitment isn't all one way - there are a considerable number of former Sturt and Forestville players scattered around the competition. A number of them played in grand finals yesterday.

Picking out a single example for your argument shows that I may be wasting my time if I respond - you didn't comprehend my post. I didn't say at all that someone can't make it from a weaker club, I was disagreeing with the blanket opposite: that a strong candidate will succeed no matter their support.

Take a bunch of students from a mixture of socio-economic backgrounds. Give half of them really strong educational support (supportive parents, excellent teachers, great materials), give the other half the opposite (abusive home, lazy teachers, poorly equipped classrooms). Some of the cream will rise to the top regardless (a genius with a crap teacher), but I imagine the numbers look better from the supported side.

Would clubs be pushed to have development officers and better support for coaches if they received their allotment of players no matter what?

Question about Mt barker/Adelaide and if Zones were implemented

Clearly the mavs would be zoned to the adelaide hills so as a player who left the mavs years ago and now is at another club but i still represent the hills in sa country playing for Eastern Hornets

Then whats the difference between Mavericks and Eastern Hornets???

Mavs is a combination of Hornets & Bullets in the District comp, in the Country comp Bullets & Hornets still exist but are seperate.

Much like Sturt FC draws on Mt B & Murray Bridge but HFL & RMFL play association football against each other.

Anon, should your club ask itself why it is losing players? Shouldn't the club work harder to retain the players and improve the club rather than blaming another club for being successful.

Let's take the following analogy:
My company is struggling. It has difficulty attracting patrons. It produces a limited range of goods of inferior quality.

Now I can do two things:

-Complain; try get legislation in place so the range of goods and the quality produced by other companies also becomes less. Then, my product becomes relatively more succesful, but overall quality would decrease.
Zoning means taking this approach.

-Invest time and money; put in all my effort to get where I want to be, be smart with my investments, and strive to become competitive.
That would improve quality overall.

If your club doesn't want to work hard to rtetain players then it is your loss. All clubs shoud endeavour to develop and KEEP the players they have by giving them the best bball experience possible.

'So Isaac, you dont think the big kid in under 18's at centrals questions your comment. Dont think he has ever played in the classics or won at State champs however was accepted into AIS, has been a state player forever and currently still in the squad for under 17's. So i guess it doesnt really matter where he played.'

I think you can thank SASI/state coaches for that

Anon, not fussed about a small 'transfer fee' if it would encourage families to push through a minor issue or reward the club being left (somewhat) but that can reward clubs who force players to leave through bad coaching, etc. It's an expensive sport already and, at its core, players (and their parents) should be able to choose where they play. I'm a web developer and come across clients whose past web developers force an exit fee - that doesn't encourage much that's positive. If the staff at that past developer are discouraged, so be it - work to improve or shift to a place that is keeping its clients?

(For basic access to sport, parents have school and social sport. We're talking about a professional service to parents/players (paying customers).)

FWIW, I doubt a financial impediment would do anything. The destination club would in many cases offer to pay it anyway.

Is there anything in place to force changes between seasons or an x-week lay-off? I think I've read about such things on here before.

I do not have the answer to the best way to zone but agree something needs to be done.

It is not so much about a Clubs program that forces talented kids to move Clubs but more about financial reward.

This certainly is happenning and one Club in particular is very good at it.

No fees, free shoes, petrol money. If you do not believe this happens then your burying your head in the sand.

No matter how good a Clubs program is sometines you can not compete on this level.

go u power!!

Why do kids move? Access to better opportunities, access to better facilities, coaching or other intangibles (playing with friends, parental links, representative opportunities).

Why do kids stay? Because they are happy where they are!

I've just moved states so I've seen a couple of different systems (NSW and Qld) neither of which seem to have any real barriers to movement across Associations. Players move clubs frequently (in some cases) for a host of reasons - to be frank, most of them don't find the answers they were after, just a different set of problems which they can complain about/move away from.

I personally can't support a system which denies a child the opportunity to benefit from good coaching. As a parent my child has changed clubs once (I figured 800km was testing the boundaries of loyalty) but I have been guilty of trying to ensure quality coaches were always in charge of my kids' teams.

When we changed States we came in with a blank slate and the opportunity to pick and choose the club we were going to. My daughter chose to NOT go to the club which then was home to the country's best player in her age group and instead went somewhere she would get to compete against said player and she's been very happy to play in a team which battle shard but lacks the depth of some of the others. They finished 6th, said player's team finished 5th and teams with regular access to less 'stars' topped the ladder and won the tournaments. The modern development calendar means that often clubs are developing players (or poaching them - depends on your view point) only to see them available less and less as they get better and better.

I work in sport (not basketball) and am constantly reminded how powerful access to facilities and access to high quality coaching is to sporting success. There has been research done into the sporting 'hotspots' of elite talent development - why does Russia produce disproportionate numbers of elite female tennis players, South Korea female golfers, the Dominican Republic baseballers? Coaching, facilities and often innovative responses to lack of facilities are identified as the drivers.

If you want a balanced competition then you need to hope that you have a group of clubs who are all equally committed to the growth of the sport and meeting the needs of their PLAYERS (which are often distinctly different from the needs of their PARENTS). Keep the kids happy - treat them fairly, help them develop (they want to progress, they don't all want to be superstars but they do all like to think that sport should be fair!) and make their '3rd place' (basketball is where they spend most of their time - after home and school) an appealing and comfortable place to be and you will be knocking back kids.

Make it a win-at-costs place and let a 'super-parent' run the show and I suspect you'll be processing a bunch of transfer requests - as somebody earlier pointed out - both in and out!!

Norwood seem to be big improvers from where they were a few years ago. This has been a massive step in the right direction, and this was without a fulltime CD.

Now that they have one, will they be able to take it to the next level? Personally I have to agree with #493 - if they really want to move forward, the money on offer was not enough to employ someone with the necessary skillset. Is it a case of just needing someone in the job, or would it have been more important to get the right person in the job. The problem I guess is generating enough money to pay for that person.

In any case, well done to Sturt for once again proving thet they are way ahead of the pack.

Question: Will the Sturt u18 girls now be going to the classics?

Coz I heard a lot of huff and puff about them being "decimated with injury's" and probs not even gona bother going to the classics if they qualified...

My guess is that they will be there...as usual...

just asking...

My response to the original question - was it worth all the hype .
BLOODY OATH IT WAS , we had a fantastic time .
Yes tiring ,stressful ,we were shit scared ( not ) about how we would handle that Zone stuff dished up by Mavs .
Results confirm Zone handled well .
Mesecke is fantastic , coach, clubman , inspirer , supporter all of that . They should clone him.

State Champs is only a qualifying event for the classics, we qualified so it was worth it.