I'm not sure of the stats but i would have thought he is shooting at a better clip this season. And his shot selection is better.

for those saying to get rid of Jacob Holmes just remember. 1 leading rebounder, 2 not the greatest scorer but getting beter. we would be stupid to let him go

I think there would be a case for Holmes playing a crucial role on any time...he is a glue type player and does the things a lot of other players either don;t like or do not do.

KEEP

Keep

A good rebounder, just need to make improvements on the team to benefit from the rebounds. They are not worth much if you can't convert them. I would say keep Jacob to play off the bench but give him good minutes if he is playing well.

Keep the man

Depends on who's available - including imports.

I'd lean towards keep, but with a well defined and structured role under a good coach. It's been difficult for him with ever changing roles.

8th sixer to play 200games 10th to score 2000points and 3rd sixer to get 1300 rebounds and ch7news will run that story tonite.

Definitely keep. Has the necessary grunt in him and has proved himself.

Is injured at the moment, but the off season will see him back 100%.

Anyone who says "not keep", I'll see you in the carpark.....

Keep and make Captain. The only bloke with the passion and fight to lead a team and demand respect from his players, especially imports.

It's a no brainer! Just read my posts in the threads regarding sixers leadership. He is a must keep and should be Captain.

why even have it as an option, anyone would take him, if the coach wanted him to score more he would.
Keep him

Defenitely keep he works so hard on defence and rebounding which were major problems all year .
Get a good coach and give Holmes a leadership role even if does come off the bench along with get the imports right with another 3 point shooter.
We will fly up the ladder in 2010-2011

Every team would be chasing him? No team wanted him so the sixers low balled him and he took it. He thinks he is a starter at the NBL level but at best he is a bench player. No team is going to be a top 4 team with him starting. Great guy but he's had his chances to prove he is going to make a team better.

Such a good leader?? He lead the dragons to a wooden spoon and is about to do the same thing this year with the sixers.

I agree with what Serious said.

Holmes is a power forward that is only 6'6 - 6'7 which is too small at NBL level. He is also to slow to play small forward, hence why Williamson knocked down 4-5 3's on him last game which probably ultimately cost us the game.

This is his 9th season and for his career he is shooting at UNDER 40% from the field which is quite honestly pathetic for a power forward!

Everyone says "But he is a solid defender!" I totally disagree with that and the reason is because here are the starting power forwards in the league Redhage, Roberts, Maxey, Tragrah, Worthington, Rychart and Ronaldson. Tell me out of all of them which ones would be worried they would have a undersized Holmes on them? How could he be considered "Solid" when all of them would dominate him on the low block! I would describe his defence as Adequate at best!

People have barely been critical of him but does anyone realise this is basically his WORST season statistically (Besides his first season where he played limited minutes). If he wasn't actually born here then perhaps people would have realised this.

Obviously I have been negative but that doesn't necessarily mean I want him cut from next years team. It depends who is available and what imports we go for. If we do retain him next season he should only be playing 10-15 minutes a game. He is definately NOT a starter!

The best thing he can do is lose weight so he is quick enough to play as a Small forward. Perhaps then he can create a niche in the team by being able to actually guard other small forwards whilst also taking advantage of them in the post. This is the only way he will be able to resurrect his career.

Definite keep. Top rebounder, solid defender and I too think his outside shot was improved this year.

Ideally would come off the bench on a championship level team I think, but would still be an important component of such a team.

Ditch...has left before and will leave again. No loyalty.

interesting fact mw. but dont they all leave on better offers anyways. the good players took huge pay cuts this season and will all be looking to be paid they worth now the league is supposed to be stable again, and jacob was no doubt signed on very low $, but all players are free and waiting to see who gives the $ up next season. if his going to demand big $ then let someone else pick him up id say. we could probably spend the money wiser but he would be good off the bench.

KingJames, not saying I disagree with you, but have you factored in for the drop to 40 minute games?

I think Holmes is the right sort of person in this league to be coming deep off the bench to give starters a rest. He is clearly a great guy, and a Charles Barkley-esq rebounder for his size. But he also has serious limitations at this level, which includes his defensive size, foot speed and limited offensive output. In short, he is a role player who with the right role, fills that role very well.

I believe that he is a low priority keep, if he is the appropriate fits once we have filled more important needs. My view is that you should never sign your role players first and hope to find the stars that fit the gaps.

I don't know why I would even buy into this but if you people knew Jacob you would not be writing all this crap He is the heart and soul of this team and not since Brett have we had someone like that.

Thats lovely scorpio but that doesn't make his deficiencies as a player acceptable. If you disagree with what we say then say why you disagree not just "he is a nice guy so he should be in the team"

If two new teams are coming into the league, it would be dangerous not to keep him and be forced into bidding wars with other teams looking for a replacement.

He rebounds well, doesn't give up, and his 3P% is decent. Critiquing a decline in stats is rough when he's playing in a reduced game and likely with different instructions to past seasons. I think he could be a bit of a divisive leader to be honest (and that's why I wouldn't jump to making him sole captain), but the main area he'd need to improve would be hitting the long twos and putbacks as they're what hurt his FG%.

Comparing him with key starting power forwards in the league is unfair. Where one team might have their stud at SG (Penney), another might have a role or supporting player (Ng or Hill). I think it's fairer to compare him with fringe starter/bench types like Cattalini, Boucher, Forman, Greer, Mackinnon, Cameron, Petrie, etc.

He's a good sixth man type who can start as a support player when required and definitely a keeper in the current climate.

MW there are many reasons why players leave teams and often valid. One of the more interesting issues is how a guy, who at one stage of his career, never found a shot he couldn't take, has been reduced to such a limited offensive role.
I would keep him as a role player and hope that a change of team mates is a positive but he needs to find that shooting feeling and at a reasonable clip which probably means that he needs to get crafty and find ways to get high percentage shots up.

Has enough strengths to keep for another year. He would be under no illusions about his season and that he needs to revitalise some aspects of his game.

He would be a keeper if he accepts coming off of the bench and being that locker room guy but his ego tells him that he's an all-star. I remember a few years ago he was quoted in the paper that he had a chance at the NBA. The guy thinks highly of himself but unfortunately his ability doesn't match his mental state.

keep him be the best thing they have done all year!

Hasn't he been coming off the bench (save for when Burston was injured or gradually returning) already? Herbert or Hill have been the preferred SFs in the full strength team I think.

Definite Keeper .

I like Jacob as a 6th man averaging around 25 minutes per game .
Use him as a steadying influence off the bench but also as the floor coach .
6-7 minute bursts dependent on match ups .
In that role one would expect 8-9 ppg , 7-8 reb with solid defense , hustle and leadership .

Would love to see him work on some crafty type post moves in which he can draw the D and find open guys . Sometimes lack of athleticism can work .

Keeper, but not a starter unless there are injuries.

Scorpio, Ninnis is a nice guy, he should also be the coach by your reasoning.

Keeper.

Bbut Id like to see him played more as a SF. When he first started in the league he was very good at backing smaller players down and hitting his fadeaway, but being shifted to the 4 has taken that strength away.

Certainly the league is better defensively than back then, but I think it is something Jacob could still get a couple of baskets a game from.

Well said EC.

No one is bagging Ninnis or Holmes they are both great people off of the court but you don't win games with nice-ness.

keep and make captain? NO THANKS!

Maybe Keep him to come off the bench as a role player.

How many Points is he Rated at?

Is there a better player out there who

A - is available?
B - is affordable?
C - Wants to be a sixer under Ninnis?

I mean its not like the lure of a championship will attract anyone.

I would keep him mainly as our back up SF playing a few minutes at PF to get him around 25mins per game,
I think he brings plenty to the team in hustle, defense, rebounding and leadership.

Another player being critised for Ninnis's game plan. Was told at the start of the season he was needed to be a defensive player more than offensive. He goes games without taking a shot.

Has more heart than most players in the league, leading rebounds in the league for someone thats been called "undersized".

Someone said hes "adequete" at defense, haha watch him defend a centre and keep them out of a shot on a regular basis when its not his role in the team.

Seriously if you look at this season hes been backup Centre to Ballinger. A role hes just not made for, the same was that Ball's shouldnt be a centre. Thats not Holmes fault and a good coach wouldnt put that on those 2 guys when we had 2 Centres on the bench.

As for his leadership, when did he lead the dragons to the wooden spoon. If your talking about the season that Shane Heal was player/coach then your an idiot. Holmes was a mere puppet to the dumbass Heal.

Keep for sure.

definetly KEEP, he works as hard as any other player an hustles like crazy, him an Herbert our our backbone, i reckon those two will keep everyone honest. Plus Jacobs boards are crazy good an he can shut down a player with his defensive skills (i.e. Redhage)

I like Holmes (he's one of the hardest Sixers out there) and would vote keep as a role player, but he wouldn't stop Redhage on his best night.

Definately KEEP!

Would be a bigger player under a better coach
or even just a different coach.

When he came back from the dragons he was shooting much better with elevation in his shots hitting more threes but he has been allowed to slip back to his old low percentage flat shooting style.
A reasonable coach would be aware and work on that.

What do the sixers do at training???

Ok , this is a long one and me will probably cop some shit but oh well .

It is fair to say our bigs over the last few years have been quite slow and lumbering which doesn't help Jake at all .
We need to take advantage of his strengths . Rebounding , boxing out and excellent body positioning by flanking him with a super athletic forward that can shut down opposition bigs and stop teams getting 2nd , 3 rd and sometimes 4th shots by cleaning the glass . 4th shots WTF .

It is amazing Jake rebounds so well for us now without much help .
Help will also allow Hill and Ng to scoop some long rebounds and even though NG improved in that area this season i think he can take another step and float around using his judgement and athleticism , then push the floor . Hill needs more focus on rebounding .

Have said before but a Rosell Ellis type with hunger for the dirty work on D and athletic enough to guard a 5 man . In O , set some big picks hit the offensive boards and be happy with scraps and occasional open 15 footers if shown no respect .

Ok so ,

PG... IMPORT ......... ??? Solid Aussie ( low points )
SG... NG ...... or HERBERT ( dependant on matchup )
SF.... Good Aussie ( pts permitting ) ......HILL ( make or break )
PF.... IMPORT ........ HOLMES
C..... BALLINGER ........ BURSTON ( let the game slow a little )


The most important thing that needs to be addressed is the desire , passion and pride of wearing the 36ers jersey . A few can be excepted this season .
Show it to each other all 40 minutes and the fans will respond .
Sixers crowd is one of the best extra men you can find but they have been lulled to a semi comatose state by previous poor management , half cut rosters , and soft heads .
Not laying blame but there comes a point where you say enough is enough , new start . I think that has been addressed by the new mob .

The coach needs to show a little outward surety and express enjoyment and confidence . Ninnis has not shown that in a head coach role yet and if it doesn't come next season then it probably won't . Been a tough ask of him.
The players have not done him any favours and need to take ownership and responsibility for their preparation both physically and mentally .
Team should watch some tape of the 85-88 and 96-98 sixers for inspiration .

We also need to make rotations to dictate instead of being reactive .
Always have at least one of the 2 imports and Ballinger or NG on the court at the one time . When we have our weaker lineups on the court we need to know our roles , slow down the offense when necessary and execute . Keep subs moving in the first half and players fresh so we don't capitulate in the 2nd half . Timing is everything .
IMO the pre-game scouting , planning , player tasks and then reflex game time decisions have been ordinary and lacking detail and imagination for along time

Ok the keepers .

Hill . needs another chance with a full and dedicated pre-season .
But IMO he starts at the back of the line until he shows how much he wants it , not saying he doesn't .
That means watching truckloads of video especially of his own games to break himself down as a player , if he can't find flaws then find someone who can and rebuild from a fresh base . Then sit with someone who knows the shit out of the game , pick some superior players to mould your game on and look out . Make or break season .
I think he start with D watch some 2-3 men from the Euroleague and NBA and then progress . Almost needs a 1 to 1 coach and trainer until next season .
Mate , the crowd are not against you they just want to see what you are made of . Gaze and Heal talk you up but its all been on potential and teasing us with the odd blinder and some flashy moves .
You have a first step that can be lethal but you coast too much and over use the dribble .
Jab step , one strong dribble and drop it in the hole .
If you miss 5 in a row doing that i will wear your singlet and nothing else to a game . Please don't do that just to see me naked .
Try stuffing one over your man early in the game and set the tone .
Maybe a sports psych , firm kick up the bum and a crowd group hug inclusive of your old man will turn shit around .
Also think you can shoot the three but when balanced not forcing .
Cut , Cut , Cut .

Ng . made excellent strides last season and for us to be successful he needs to maintain improvement but also know his value to the team is very high . 6th man but If he can match up defensively ok with the 2 on D he starts . If Ng is playing well then he stays on no question . Don't rest him too long either . 6 -7 minute stints . 24-28 minutes a game and with some picks set on and off the ball to free him up . If his man is getting clubbed on screens chasing the sniper he will be an easier guard the other end .
No less than 5 three point attempts per game . theres 6-9 pts right there . Should average at least 15 , 3 and 3 with a steal per outing .
He and Balls have the green light and heat check NOT the whole team .

Holmes . 20-25 minutes off the bench communicating coaches thoughts to teammates . Floor coach and steadying influence . Good spirit , Solid D and excellent team rebounder . Like to see him set up the play a bit more .
Can pinch hit guarding the 5 on D on rare occasions
Shoot the open 3 with confidence and feet set .
Be invaluable with right supporting cast .
It's funny how such level headed guy gets so many unreasonable expectations put on him , pretty sure he knows he is no superstar.

Herbert . Open games with his tough D and hustle up when there is a strong 2 man on opposing team . Needs to let the game come to him a little more and not force too much off the dribble . Knock the open 3 and when defenses rush a nice balanced 1 dribble jumper . Will get his shots .
Don't mind him pushing the ball in transition .

Ballinger . 32-3 minutes average .

A little more time in motion offense popping out to the perimeter .
He is a brilliant long ball shooter and at worst if he is getting a tough cover it gets him touches and keeps the defense moving and his frustration levels down .
Should shoot 3-4 treys a game if they are there .
2 man game with PG penetrating at his man when he helps Balls can pop and hit the J . should be go to move when things are dry . If the D closes out then fair chance AB can work him over .
More feeds to him in the post , and more movement when that occurs so they can't double down to much . Ng feeds him his man can't double or bang 3 ball .
Hill and Ng back cuts and basket cuts with the other big trail cutting behind
as a final option . Again even if they don't receive the ball they will be in position to crash the boards and open up the D .
PG and other player protecting the break .

Burston . Ummm , play 90% of matches and all will be good .
Would hope he doesn't do all the hardcore running in pre-season .
More bike , swimming , pilates and core strength .
He is nimble and a good strider and doesn't need the pounding on his frail body . 20 mins of high % offense and solid boards and he is our trump .
Curl cuts to the basket , sneaky dip cuts and good positioning and he is good for 12 and 6 .

IMPORT PG . simple stud , Darnell lite would be great , A leader .
Didn't mind Gilchrist and he would have been better without Groves compounding his weaknesses . But a long PG that can run the team , penetrate and can a decent % of outside attempts . Doesn't have to be a superstar .

IMPORT F . Athletic strong and happy to do dirty work and take pride in D .
Also a bit of fire inside would be good to balance a rather passive frontline.

AUSSIE 3 man to push Hill to better things . Athletic , can he keep Wortho to 20 , we will take that .

AUSSIE PG . Crafty player that can spell the Point but also free up the PG in a small ball situation . Someone that can penetrate and hit the 3 but plays with composure .

Spend Money to make money .
Championship 2010-11 , no reason why not .

Also maybe cut a decent TV commercial . That one of Ballinger in the dark shooting a free throw made me feel sad but laugh out loud at the same time .

Whoops , poor editing .

Yea i agree with most of what you said, how ever i would have ballinger play exclusively at PF or no more than 5-10 mpg in C and start Burstons in C and develop a young PF/C, or get Schenscher and split the mimutes between Schenscher and Burston and have Burston play some PF minutes and Holmes play a bit of SF.
Also with the import id be going probably for a starting SF, but a versatile player who can play some SG and PF if needed of the KB mould.
My line up would be
C Burston
PF Ballinger
SF Import (long, athletic and versatile ala KB, DT)
SG Herbert
PG Import (ala Darnell Mee or if we think we need more scoring punch get a scoring PG in the CJ or Mckee mould)
6 Holmes (back up SF/PF)
7 Ng buck up SG/PG)
8 Best Aussie available (prob around the 6-8 points level depending on what points we have left) (Schenscher would be ideal and could start C if we can get him and have the points/$$ available, as this position would probably need to go to a PF/C for balance, but i personally would grab the best available player and shuffle the line up as neccessary as we have enough versatile players)
9 Hill (back up SF/SG)
10 Under 23 player (best player we can get)

Yeah I agree, we should go for a team of:

Schenscher/Anstey
Ballinger/Wortho
Redhage/Saville
Penney/Ubaka
Homicide/Gibson

...but if we can't get that for some reason then Jake is a definite keeper.


"Everyone says "But he is a solid defender!" I totally disagree with that and the reason is because here are the starting power forwards in the league Redhage, Roberts, Maxey, Tragrah, Worthington, Rychart and Ronaldson. Tell me out of all of them which ones would be worried they would have a undersized Holmes on them? How could he be considered "Solid" when all of them would dominate him on the low block! I would describe his defence as Adequate at best!"

I can't think of too many players in the league (if any) who I'd rather have defending those guys you listed. Even if Rolan and Dusty have been playing 90% at Centre, try Hinder and Melzer.

Are you serious that those guys would dominate him on the low block? Firstly, off the top of my head, Tragardh is the only one there who is any more than 2cms taller than Holmes so I wouldn't call him undersized against any of the other blokes (Holmes: 201, Redhage: 203, Rolan: 203, Maxey: 201?, Wortho: 203, Rychart: 197, Ronaldson: 202?), in fact that list could easily be mistaken for an example of how the PF position in the NBL is decreasing in size.

And I'm not sure I'd call any of those guys stronger than Holmes (bar Rolan). Ronaldson and Wortho would challenge him perhaps, but from memory Ronaldson could not score on Holmes in the post and Wortho beat him soley on quickness. Jake's is one of the strongest post defenders in the league and just a pretty outstanding defensive player in general.

Agreed Jonno , should have articulated that i would only really run Ballinger there for first 5 minutes and not every game . Is really dependant on opposing frontcourt our choice of import .

Feel that it is a pro-active move and at least forces the opposition to consider match-ups .
If opposition C guards Ballinger then that is to our advantage , run some 4 out motion and iso post ups to attack him and try and draw some early fouls .
If they try and go back at Balls early we can change match-ups or tactics on D for a bit or make the call . We should have much more variation on defense especially early as we just don't have great containment in the 1 on 1 scenario and is a good time to get a jump .

If Burston was guaranteed to be fit all year or if we got Big Luke back then we should look more at an athletic and versatile wing that can score well but mainly shut down the oppositions best forward .

Well said X .

I think X you may have overestimated Jacob's size and underestimated some of the other players' sixes there. He also lacks lateral quickness for a guy who is only 6'6.

I think he is a solid defender, but he has definite limitations when guarding the stars of this league.

This entire thread is a joke isn't it?
It seems that there is only 1 or 2 idiots who would not keep him compared to the dozens who would.

If he led the league in scoring would you keep him?

If he led the league in assists would you keep him?

Why is rebounding different?

KEEP and make captain.

Hahaha had to laugh about the comment that he can stop other players ie Redhage. Hasn't Redhage killed the sixers this year? Obviously we have a lot of sturt supporters on here. Holmes is a good 7-8th man off of the bench. Plus Jake was te captain to that dragon wooden spoon even if he was a pawn in hammers palm.

"Gilchrist would've been better without Groves'

While PG Groves is better without Gilchrist.

While Holmes has 200games 2000points and 1300 rebounds for the sixers - It was basketballer Daniel Bass (who looks a little like Holmes) having a shoot around at the dome with Dean Brogan on 7news.
Bass beating Brogan at basketball - while Brogan's gonna teach Bass footy, as Bass is now signed by Port Power.

It has been stated as if it is fact a number of times in this thread that Holmes is the highest rebounder in the league. Whilst he is doing ok, and he was leading early in the season in the absense of Burston, it simply isn't true any more.

He is currently:

7th on the list of total rebounds per game (behind Rick Rickert, Rolan Roberts, Larry Davidson, Anthony Petrie, Dusty Rychart and Mark Worthington);

4th for defensive rebounds per game (behind Mark Worthington, Michael Joiner and Chris Anstey); and

15th for offensive rebounds per game (behind a heap of people).

FWIW, Jacob also comes in at no. 40 on defensive efficiency on the season. But that includes the blocks and steal stats, which aren't Jacob's strong suit.

(Thanks to Pro Stats)

A useful role player, but to read some of this thread makes Jacob sound like the world's best defesive stopper. Somehow I don't think he will receive a call up for the World Champ's to start against LeBron any time soon.

Jacob is averaging 6.9 points a game this season.
Compared to good shooters he still realeases his longer shots from too far in front of his face IMO (should be much closer to his forehead/off the top of his head to get consistent air and distance). Brad Hill also struggles with his outside shots at NBL level (tends to release from too far behind his head)

When the 36'ers won their titles they had numerous good shooters in the team, this year we only have two consistent % shooters IMO.

""Wortho would challenge him (Holmes) perhaps"

This is why you never enter into serious discussion with homers."

Challenge him for strength mate. D'oh.

"Hahaha had to laugh about the comment that he can stop other players ie Redhage. Hasn't Redhage killed the sixers this year?"

Ignoring the fact that Holmes was injured in the game where Redhage REALLY destroyed us, I didn't say he could stop him, has anyone stopped him? I just can't think of too many players I'd rather have on him/them.

"I think X you may have overestimated Jacob's size and underestimated some of the other players' sixes there."

I've seen him listed from 198cm to 201cm over his career. Usually 201 in recent years. As I said the other heights are just from memory but I'm pretty sure about them. Which ones do you suspect are wrong?

"This entire thread is a joke isn't it?
It seems that there is only 1 or 2 idiots who would not keep him compared to the dozens who would."

I started this thread due to the fact Boti said cut him!