Isaac
Years ago

Benching players in foul trouble

Interested to hear from some coaches on the thinking and tactics that work best when a player enters foul trouble. TrueHoop had this on Turkoglu's benching in yesterday's NBA game:

Sitting Hedo Turkoglu with four fouls 4:49 into the second half seemed too conservative for a must-win game. Coaches fall into two camps here. There are those who say you just play him, and assume there's nothing better that can happen than getting the most possible minutes out of him. Then there are those who point out that most coaches sit their guys to have them ready in crunch time.

John Hollinger will tell you there's no evidence you win more by playing better at the end of games as opposed to any other parts of games. What often happens is what happened in this case: You sit the guy, and get all the downside of his fouling out, but then he never comes all that close to fouling out. Turkoglu finished the game, after playing all of the fourth quarter and overtime, with the same four fouls Van Gundy sat him with mid-way through the fourth quarter. Meanwhile the Lakers were +8 as Turkoglu sat, and the Magic's offense bogged down. That quickly improved when Turkoglu returned.
Should you save a player in such a situation for the end of the game? Should you pull them out briefly in case they're getting attacked by the same opponent in the same way? Or should you let them play on?

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KingJames  
Years ago

Well his rest didn't help his free throw shooting!

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LA Boy  
Years ago

I'm not a coach but I like to see coach keep players in the game. Just let the guy play pulling him/her out can disrupt their flow so even if he comes back in he/she probably be cold anyway.

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gen x chromosome  
Years ago

What if you have a similar player on the bench? Straight swap isn't it? Weigh up what you might gain or lose and make the decision.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing,and in this case make the coach look a bit silly, but what if Turkoglu picked up his 5th in the 2nd quarter? there'd be calls for coaches head!

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LC  
Years ago

Agree with LA Boy, sometimes you just have to play them, particularly if momentum is on your side.

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SKUX101  
Years ago

Keep him on, but possibly make a switch on defence to ensure he is guarding someone who isn't that aggresive/looking to score

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Isaac  
Years ago

gen x, he had four fouls almost five minutes into the third quarter, rather than the second. Assuming he can afford 1.5 fouls a quarter, he was roughly on pace.

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gen x chromosome  
Years ago

Ah crap, I thought it was in the 2nd... my bad! (I've just gotten outa bed after a work show..)

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LA Boy  
Years ago

on a slightly different topic that still surrounds Coach Van Gundy. There's been a lot of talk about how he made bad decisions on benching Alston.

although he probably played Nelson too much but in reality this could really have gone either way. imgagine if Nelson made some play near the end that resulted in a Magic win, everybody'd go "great decision by Van Gundy and having the confidence keeping Nelson in" etc.

so personally I think people shouldn't be too harsh on him for his decision...that's my opinion anyway.

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TC2  
Years ago

If you're Al Westover, and Chris Anstey pickes up his fourth foul in the first half of a match at the Cage, you keep playing him because you know that he is never going to pick up his fifth and sixth fouls.

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EC  
Years ago

I would save him for crunch time. It appears that teams seem to pick up the pace a bit towards the end when the result of the game is more determined. Not only that but if they have slacked off a bit in the early stages of the game, they tend to want to do a lot more to make up for it towards the end. That's when you need to have those players available.

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Jordan  
Years ago

I know that Westover and Goorj have generally kept their star players in even when they've picked up 4 fouls in the first half.

In the case of Anstey it rarely comes back to bit them, but I can remember Jason Smith fouling out pretty early a few times against the 6ers back in Goorj's Sydney days.

I guess its really just the coach's decision. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

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billo  
Years ago

Depends what position they play IMO. A guard on 4 fouls will find it a lot easier to keep out of trouble than a big man defending Dwight Howard who will stroll right past you for the dunk if you're not 100% committed. Turkoglu's not inside banging bodies on D so in his case I think you're better leaving him on.

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nickyg  
Years ago

All i know is the Orlando coach got strung by his nuts for losing that game & all Howard had to do was hit one foul shot to give them a 4 pt lead with 10 secs left. If Howard hits the free throw, all the second guessing of his coaching goes away.

Turkoglew was awesome down the stretch & almost won them the game. He's a great player. All the mistakes came after they should have iced the game from the foul line.

Did Van Gundy have done anything differently? No way man - very unlucky!!

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