Isn't this forum full of online comments? Are you putting all us posters in the non-'Intellectual cream of society' camp? ;) I am indignant, and livid - even indiglivid.

I don't have the answers to those questions but as a kind of a segue, I found some recent comments from Stan van Gundy which make for interesting reading: linky.

Essentially Stan advances the idea that the America = basketball idea isn't good for the game in America either - it's a good read.

I agree totally with you Isaac. I think the AFL commentators are doing their bit at the moment. Regular mentions of players with basketball backgrounds and on the weekend Lynch was even talking about Tippets sister being a star basketballer.

Good point, it is definately a common myth, even though it is as much a european sport as an American these days.

I'd say encourage NBL to use non-american imports, either make asian/southern hemisphere players non imports or have an import from outside of USA exempt from salary cap provided only 1 import is taken. Can you imagine if a melbourne club recruited a top greek player, how much this would build momentum for team and NBL.

Bo, you know what I mean! I had just read News Ltd comments when I wrote that - they have some of the worst comments around (save for YouTube or TechCrunch).

I just think it's unfair that we have top-tier Australian players, as native as any AFLer, ignored just because our sport has American origins.

Netball's origins stem from basketball and the US as well, but they tend to escape unscathed.

Is it just a matter of getting our best Aussies out in the media somehow? Or collectively working to dispel these myths wherever they arise?

I still doubt with salary cap restrictions that you would be able to secure a "Top Greek Player" unfortunately.
It starts at the ground roots in my opinion. The reason why we think Basketball= America is because in USA they still would have more kids participating in Basketball than any other country in the world. Europeans tend to teach their kids soccer, Australians Aussie Rules, New Zealanders Rugby and so on. Basketball would be in America's top 3 sports probably taught at school, it would be lucky for it to be top 10 in Australia.
I think the Basketball= America stereotype is slowly changing though due to the fact that more and more players from around the world are playing in the NBA and over time if the European teams get closer and closer to USA in the World Championships and in particular the Olympics it will change that stereotype even more.

I wear new era caps, air jordans and vintage NBA jerseys, listen to hiphop and drive a cadillac with hydraulics, and play basketball yet I have no desire to be american or come off as an american. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, it just depends if you give a shit. We get the same opinions in NZ from the mostly rugby biased public, except when theres a chance that the breakers or tall blacks may do well lol.

Here is something I don't understand...Why are there "haters" to American culture. There's been times when some stranger (eg. sales person) learnt I am American and started to be rude. I actually think it's a bit ridiculous. Conversely I can tell you most Americans love Aussie culture. Also mind you I don't dress in pop clothes.

In fact last week I was doing some work at USC and during lunch time we played AFL and everybody loved it. This football player was like..."man, I'd go to Australia to play this if I can". There were actually some pretty funny scenes that day too!

IMO basketball is an American game (just like footy been Aussie game) it's part of American culture (along with gridiron and baseball). Some people's just funny with things; perhaps just need to accept different culture?

PS: I think people also need to understand not all Americans act in the way of "American wannabe". It's more of a TV thing than anything.

I think we will go a long way when we hear less American and more Australian accents in our broadcasting and media. Having the microphone in on time-outs doesn't help either. Quite cringe-worthy hearing Steve Carfino commenting of Brian Goorjian or Al Westover's time-outs in last year's GF series.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these naturalised Aussies and the contributions they and other Americans have contributed to our sport, it's just that if this was a significant issue we should then be mindful of the voices that the public hears, and get more Australian Coaches, Commentators and PA announcers; I'm happy to volunteer my services!

mystro- I really like the way you put it. Just because somebody dress certain ways don't make them certain things; just because I like Chinese food don't make me Chinese.

Interesting post mystro, I was just thinking to myself;

How do we dispel the America = "Kids in sleeves or sideways hats" theme?

Yes, as far as local broadcasts are concerned, Carfino simply has to go. Nothing against him personally, and I quite like his commentary, but the American twang must be utterly offensive to the US-wary basketball-unwashed.

As far as game-nights go, no half-baked fireworks/pre-game laser shows or anything of that sort. Anything that gives the casual attender the idea that the game needs extra icing to make it exciting will see through it and be discouraged from coming back. Adelaide United game nights are excellent in this reagard - everything draws your attention towards the game and the players. The crowd noise after Brett Maher one of our actual players hits a transition 3 is a good-enough sell.

It's the same here in Wollongong, there would only be a tiny minority of these "Wannabe Americans" at Hawks games, and probably none older than 18.

Sure, there's plenty of people in their retro NBA jerseys, Yankees caps at the like but i'd hardly call any of them "Wannabees"

I've got 30 pairs of Jordans in my cupboard and am hooked on NBA (and NBL) but i've never thought of myself as a wannabee or ever heard anyone even suggest it.

I see far more displaying their coolness in the mall, at the beach (but only as far as the car park not actually on the sand/water) and whatever place they hang out.

Even in mid-week local comp, "wannabees" are few and far between, they are generally not playing comp because you can't travel or carry to get to the basket.

On court, i can only think of a couple of import Hawks in recent memory who played with that wannabee attitude both didn't last more than a handful of games.

I just don't know where a lot of the community gets that perception.

It'd be hard to fix a problem that really doesn't exist but does in the eye of many - generally older - Australians. (does that make sense??)

Carfino's woefully bad "American" accent he puts on sometimes on Fox has to go, but we've been saying that for ages. It's not him, and it's not natural. Just talk normal Steve.
I'm no expert on accents durations, but he's been here 20 years, married a local (ie, no accent).

Same goes for Westover and Goorj, surely an accent doesnt hang around for two decades?

I picked up a Kiwi accent in 6-months and lost it quicker when i returned home.

I've lost where i was going with this... blame the cold-flu tablets i just smashed.

Sometimes accents will re-emerge in context IMO.

Alot of the older guys at my work think basketball is 'American wank' or a 'sissy's game'. I just put it down to the generation they were brought up in.
I know not all older people think this because of the good variety of ages at the dome.
The 36ers got me into basketball, sure i knew it was a American game but i didnt think of it that way,i was just following my local team. I watch the NBA also but the 36ers will always be my favorite team.
It seems kind of true what anon 239066 said about how Aussies think of it as a freaks game.
I just wish people who knock the game would come out and watch a match and get behind the local team.

Agreed KEVY. Shut, I jist watched Flight of the Conchords last night and I've bun talking like thus all day.

What i don't get about the whole "hating american culture" thing with young Aussies who go to sports is, they are probably in the car on the way home from a Collingwood or Broncos game listening exclusively to Top 40 hip-hop (massively american, and massively awful) and wearing Ed Hardy t-shirts, and other bling things. So why are they willing to accept the "american culture" in what they wear or listen to, but not in their sports?

I find us Aussies very hypocritical when it comes to this attitude. We hate "american culture" yet in reality, we lap it up.

Use HIP HOP as an example, most people associate it with Bling Bling, Sex, Drugs and Violence. They know 50 Cent and Snoop, but never heard of Mos Def and Gangstarr. They concentrate on the negative and pigeon hole things.
I've been called a 'American Wannabe' many times for the way I've dressed and what I listen to and I don't associate with the typical Aussie past times.
Do I care? Sometimes, because they don't know how proud of being an Australian I really am.
I've cringed just as much when someone acts like a gangsta rapper or a typical bogan.

And people who call it a sport for wimps would run a mile if they had to face Shaq or a Ben Wallace.

I blame CJ Bruton, spends one year playing college ball in the states, and somehow comes back to Australia with the worst American accent I have possibly ever heard:)

the accent thing is funny; I know a kid who moved to Australia when he was 8 and he's now 24 with an accent. And I don't hear Aussies here developing an American accent either.

from what everyone said really proves a point that people get the wrong image when it comes to American culture. when you look at music, how you dress etc. it all depend on the region you live and grew up in. Just because TV shows everyone listening to hip-hop and baggy clothes doesn't mean that's how everyone is.

For example, if you grew up in New Orlean, Manhattan (New York) you'd probably be a big jazz fan wearing shirts and suits. while in LA, Brooklyn (New York) probably rap and street clothes.

Funny enough, jazz originated in US and is also a big part of the culture but never seem to cross people's mind...

There are massive stereotypes about jazz. i.e you have to be black to be good at it, everyone uses drugs, drinks hard etc. its just as bad if not worse than the gangster thing in bball. jazz has been around nearly 100 years in popular culture and finally the stereotypes are breaking down (only in the last 10 years or so) and bball has really only been popular since the 80's, so maybe it needs more time for the stereotypes to wear off.

Anyway, i think anyone who dresses in baggy stuff, the whole get up, etc, you look ridiculous, dress properly. It doesnt help when shops like Playerz don't sell anything less than like XXL.

And i blame people like Allen iverson for the ghetto image. hes the only guy off the top of my head who is in popular culture who dresses like a thug. All the other guys, MJ, magic, bird etc before him dressed professionally.

Now i think about it, bball is the only sport here that has been successful that is popular in the US. their big sports, football, baseball, ice hockey, basketball. maybe thats why it is connected so closely to America.

Anyway, I dont care, i'm going to go shoot some heroin and play some jazz badly cos i'm white.

why would anyone dress in baggy stuff for anyway? it looks retarded, and its hot, and you can't possibly be comfortable.

to add to your list of NBA guys:
Marbury, Carter, Odom, Artest and too many to name but notice where the majority of these guys come from?

So what I'm saying is, people need to realize Pop is just a style adopted by regions in US (not the whole US).

It's just like in CBD and suburbs people dress and act different. So to crucify Pop as symbolic to American is pretty wrong.

ELG- you also mentioned it too, guys like MJ, Magic etc. never dressed in the same fashion, further proving the point that not all American are like this. And this perception of hip-hop obviously needs to be changed; Hip-hop is just a fashion, it does not classify you an American (wannabe). Period.

A, you don't reckon CJ might've picked it up from his father?

I know heaps of people who were born in the states who have lived in NZ for 20+ years that cling to their accents which is sweet as I see it as kinda trying to keep theit cultural identity in sum way I suppose but i also know white NZ kids that lived in the states fot 2-3 years 15-20 years ago and still try to talk with an american accent, so so so lame.

Baggy clothes are way way comfortable "eastern lowland gorilla".

Sneakers are a disease "kevy47", I got to 72pairs and just got over it, I must have blown 20k at least (jordan's, flight and forces mostly but a few pairs of reebok pumps and converse aero jams ect).

you guys should spare a thought for us here in Nz where every sports team has to have a crap name like the Nz hocky team are the "blacksticks" and the netballers are the "silverferns" so lets call our basketballers the crappiest name ever in history, the "tallblacks". It makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Pisses me off way more than so called wannabe's @ basketball games.

it is certainly a funny world we live in!

anyway,on basketball....

i liked the van gundy interview,interesting points.

the thing i notice in australian style b'ball,is the amount of play that seems to have no purpose.
from the nbl, down.(it gets worse the further down)

i believe we have to change the way the game is coached to our kids,a more 'purpose focused' style.

it was evident at the last olympics,we have very good multi-skilled players but dealing with 'situations' in very limited manner.

the euro style is about getting to the basket and scoring or knocking down the shot after the ball has been through sets of hands.(with purpose)
a sought of 'there is more than one way to skin a cat'attitude.......i like it !!

I think its Generation X causing the problems. They love Countdown and Cold Chisel and think basketball is aerial ping pong. They wouldn't be caught dead listening to Hip Hop or wearing a baseball cap.

Generation Y have no problem with it

^^^ It's funny then that Basketball was at it's peak here in Oz at the time when Generation X were getting old enough to buy things for themselves e'g tickets to games....I'm Generation X and i remember going to the Powerhouse with my season tix, packed every game, not just for Brett's final one, and having to smuggle extra mates in with me and my buddies' season passes plus pass-outs. I swear there was sometimes 9000 people in that 7800 seater, and a HELL of a lot of them were Gen Xers. So that argument is retarded.

Nah I agree that Tallblacks is a bit gay.