Im a huge Laker and Kobe fan and Im starting to admit that LeBron has passed Kobe as no 1. I reckon it has to with the fact that LeBron has made those around him better. Kobe has much better supporting cast but the Cavs as a team are playing much better ball.
Im still hopeful that the Kobe and the Lakers can turn things around, and they'll be still around the mark for years to come, but it will be getting much harder for them to win it all.
So agreed LeBron is no 1, Kobe is no. 2 but others are very close behind.

I agree with you that Kobe is no longer an extraordinary player. He is still one of the best players in the game, but these days he is mostly just a really good jumpshooter who creates his own shot. You don't see the same hang time or spectacular plays of earlier in his career much these days. So there are a number of guys who can do the same things he does now. Even a greatly diminished Ray Allen outplayed Kobe in last years finals.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it will just be LBJ v Durant for the title for the next 8 years though. First of all, I don't think you can just look at individual players in isolation anymore. The current defensive rules in the NBA mean no-one, not even Lebron or Wade, can get to the basket at will against good teams. So if you don't have good team mates to pass the ball to, you aren't going to be very successful.

Second, LBJ is pretty good, but he still isn't that reliable a jumpshooter and still hasn't won a title. Whats to say that he will be more successful than Wade in the end? Give Wade the right team mates and he could beat Lebron. And Durant? Love his shooting ability, but he is still a long way from proving he can make his team mates better. There are no guarantees his supporting cast will develop enough to challenge for a title in the next couple of years.

A team like Portland has every chance of dominating both Lebron and Durant for the next half decade if they get it right.

After watching Rose in this years playoffs, if Chicago can improve the team around him, he could also challenge.

And no doubt there are guys in high school with exceptional talent that will be drafted in the next few years. Who knows, one of them could come along and prove to be better than all the current players!

I dislike Kobe alot. I dislike the way he rubs off on the Public. His persona and all..He trys to act like Michael Jordan. What i hate more is the way Kobe is towards his team mates. He yells, curses at them and harms their confidence. At least with Lebron, he doesn't yell at his team mates, instead he talks to them and tries to resolve the issue calmly and positively.

Kobe not an extraordinary player? That ain't true. He's one of the best players in the league. It pisses me off that Kobe simply has dominated the last few years, but everyone keeps harping on that until he wins a ring without Shaq he'll never get the respect that he deserves.

Now, LeBron is a star, but I haven't seen him win a ring, yet people are already saying that he's better than Jordan. He's really only had 2-3 brilliant seasons. Kobe's been dominating the league for 10+ years.

The title of this thread is stupid. Kobe hasn't had a 'fro for years.

Ah but does the carpet match the curtains TC2?

No, but it matches his vagina.

I'm not a fan of Kobe Bryant but take personal sentiment out of this discussion and ask yourselves would the Lakers be playing in the Conference Finals without him? I bet the answer is no/maybe but only 1st round.

I've developed more respect for Kobe while watching the Western Conference Finals. He hasn't stopped competing, makes big plays, is scoring above his season points average, finds the open man when doubled and still works hard on defence (even when mis-matched). Other than a more friendlier disposition (which is a matter of subjective opinion) what more would a fan want?

If I were a Laker fan I would be angry at management for not putting better players around Bryant after Shaquille O'Neal left but that in itself is another thread about dynasty building via the draft v trading/buying championships.

Obviously Bryant's star will fade in the next few years but he is still a great player who'll inevitably become more of a jumpshooter as he gets older(just like many other great 2/3's before him).

Ok. he's still a top 5 player in the world, still the best guard defender when he has to, still the most clutch player in the league

Kobe's problem is he's trying to win a title by letting/making his team mates do alot he sometimes tries to hard to get them involved.

LBJ's team mates all know their roles, sure they get a little hot headed at times but if they get stuck they just give it to LBJ.

The lakers stuff up and they don't go to kobe they just start throwing up crap!

Good post Big Ads, but take the best player out of any team in the finals and they would struggle....

How about you replace Kobe with;
Anthony?
Wade?
Roy?
Pierce?

Would LA slip that much at all? Would these other players get more out of Gasol and co?

The play of Bynum has probably been the biggest problem for the Lakers, plus the inability of LA to get the most out of Odom's unique skill set. Oh, and they are very weak at the point....

I really hate that i won't get to see the Odom play for coach D at the knicks.. it would be something to watch...

Here is my one comment in favour of Kobe.... the changes to the rules regarding zone defence means that unlike MJ, Kobe won't be allowed by any team to post up close to the basket. They will instantly zone off their man and not have to commit to the dbl team. Choosing to 'float' a step away from him, denying dribble entry and enabling Kobes defender to body up and contest the jump shot. This defensive strategy would of been called for illegal defence in MJ's era.

And for f@#k sake can someone get off their arse and fix the typo in the title? I know its Sunday Isaac but church was over ages ago, get to work!

how does kobe have a better supporting cast? a lot of those players are all selfish and just throw up shit shots when under pressure, apart from gasol all of the others are very overrated and stuggle under pressure even gasol does at times.

While the cavs supporting cast my not be the big names the lakers have they do their job and work their asses of to make it easier for lebron and when there under pressure as DJ said they make sure they get it in the hands on Lebron.

Kobe is in a team where all the players only care about scoring, while Lebron is in a team where they know there roles and they know who the main scorer is going to be, this makes it easier for lebron than kobe. Lebrons in the better team in my opinion and has the better players supporting him, those lakers players are overrated.

Chicken and the egg time?

What comes first, a supporting cast that plays their role because they are told too, or the one that plays their role because they feel valued?

You would have to admit that LeBron, even at this early stage in his career, seems to manage his team-mates much better.

Is this thread a joke? Hes about to take the Lakers back to the NBA finals for the 2nd straight year whilst averaging what? 38ppg this series? Hitting big shot after big shot in the 4th? Clamping down on Melo everytime the game gets close so he gets nothing going?

I think three things have worked against Bryant in his career:

a)the media scrutiny of playing for a 'big market' Lakers team who's fans expect success;
b)having an astonishing amount of success at a relatively early period of his career (with significant assistance from Shaq, Phil Jackson and a solid group of experienced role players); and
c)his confidence.

Of course on the flip side all three points have also worked wonders for Bryant's career.

How would history have portrayed Bryant if he had stayed with the Charlotte Hornets? Perhaps he might have fallen into the same category as Tracey McGrady and George Gervin; talented players but traded from team to team without championship success (ok the window is still open for McGrady but his 1st round history has damaged his status as a superstar).

Perhaps Vince Carter would have been a better example.

I agree this thread is very stupid! The guy is about to take the Lakers to the NBA finals and averaging 38ppg in this series.

So what if he is now the second best player in the NBA oh what a shame that is. He has dropped a place wow he is diminishing so quickly! Maybe next year he might drop two places!!!

Also how is Carmelo taking over this series from Kobe? Kobe's team is up 2-1. Game one Carmelo barely did anything in the last quarter while Kobe had what 20 in that quarter? Also in the most recent game Carmelo has 21 points @ 30% while Kobe had 41 @ 50%. Wow yes Carmelo is really taking over. I actually like the Nuggets and want them to win but I actually stick to facts not biased hatred.

Q why aren't you talking about the demise of Paul Pierce? Surely that guy is going down hill much quicker! and how is he going in the Eastern Conference finals this year? Thats right he didn't make it....

I don't think you can underestimate the value of Lebron's physical tools. He is literally the best athlete to ever play the game by a country mile. It's like combining Karl Malone, Vince Carter, and Allen Iverson into one athlete. No doubt he is a brilliant player with a very high iq and exceptional skills but he can do things noone else can because of his combo of strength speed and athleticism. If you put Kobe's brain in Lebrons body you would have the greatest player of all time, after Jordan.

hahaha - when the great man, Kobe is holding the Finals trophy above his head look whos going to have egg on their faces .. I'm taking down names peeps .. and please don't ban me for defending a great player .. ban those jealous types writing all these hated and biased stuff about Kobe

Quag - will edit the title now. Sorry about the delay, I've been in WA for a few days.

If the Lakers win the NBA Championship, I doubt he'd care where the average punter ranks him in the scheme of things, because he's reached the ultimate goal. IMO, being MVP doesn't mean a thing if your team doesn't win. Lebron James should consider this season a failure if the Cavs don't capture the title.

Yeah, i think my point got lost again in my bias, but i liken it to animals in the wild, Kobe has been the king lion for some time, now the other young lions are circling and smell some blood....

Kobe ain't going away anytime soon - despite what al y'all wish. As bball fans i don't understand why everyone doesn't love Kobe being the best player ever and all - you don't see people hatin on the best in other sports - like in golf nobody hates the best Tiger Woods etc

Tiger Woods doesn't rip in to his caddy in front of everyone when he misses a mid-range putt.

Tigers Woods is yet to sue his low-income earning housekeeper because she dared to expose what an arrogant bitch his wife is.

MJ used to yell at teammates and nobody rips at him. Truth be told - it's the fact Kobe is as good or even better then the idol MJ that everyone is hatin and jealous of. Kobe at 50 would still be greater then most of the people there

Kobe better than MJ?

Can someone tell me if I am wasting my time entering this discussion with someone who thinks that is true?

Yes, you are wasting your time. ;)

You have no idea playtime, TC2, don't bother unless you are going to get nastier than yesterday..
; )

I don't mind stepping it up a notch.