His job is to look at that sort of stuff and give his opinion. I dont think he is questioning whether they are nice people or not, just their bball ability

He's right they didn't make the GF so there was going to be changes made and if tracey etc. dont fir into the future plans or game style then im sure they wouldn't take it personally...at least i hope they dont

Anybody got a copy of the Article to post here? Didn't see it.

Lightning moves ahead

"Cherie Smith and Erin Seward had bust-out seasons and comfortably should hold their spots but whether Adelaide will persist with Monique Bowley and Jenah Piwanski is doubtful. Both definitely are under question marks."

"Based on form and how much or how sparingly they were used, the futures of Nicki Thompson and Tracey Braithwaite do not appear to be with Adelaide."

Didn't read too badly to me, but I can understand that it's harsh for your performance to be questioned publically and that people could take it personally.

i agree....it is highly unlikely that there is going to be a huge turnover of players, it is not like the lightning are going to throw the cheque book at 4 or 5 new recruits and have to cut 4 or 5 current players. going by this seasons results, if we could add 1 maybe 2 players to this years squad, we have a legitimate contender...we were not far off the mark.

I haven't seen the article itself, but that does sound unnecessarily harsh considering they just lost a final by a point in overtime.

To those critical of the write-up, what's your call on the players Boti thinks could go? Deserve to be re-signed, need more time to develop, need more court time?

Michelangelo Rucci is the football writer for the Advertiser and his articles are never as blunt as Boti's. What Boti is saying is most probably true as the list needs to be reviewed but to have the players photos 'doubtful' is a bit harsh.

It's a shame someone didn't write a similar article/critique on the Crows after their abysmal 2004 showing. Then again, I'm a paid-up Power member .....

I felt that the article could have waited a week or so. The girls are just getting over a heart-breaking loss, on what sounds like an unusually stressful day (if you include the car accident). And then, within a few days, they have to read this?

While some of his sumarries may have been accurate, his timing was poor. How about a giving the girls some grief time?

How about doing his job?
They're playing National League, the top level for the sport in Australia - obviously they realise their performances are going to come under some form of scrutiny?!?

As for teh Rucci comment - that's bull - for about 3 weeks there was shit in teh paper about which crows/power players were to be delisted, should be discarded etc.

take it on the chin, thats what constructive criticism is, it wouldnt be right of the club to rest without evaluating and seeing where they can get better.

What else to expect from a sub-standard paper but sub-standard journalism.

I repeat, whilst there may be nothing wrong with the content of the article, there was definitely something wrong with it's timing. Give the girls some time to reflect on what has been a wonderful season. Then, in say a week or two, they can be put up for public criticism.

Fair enough?

Obviously none of you have any idea how the media works.

The journalist writes the article.

It is then submitted to a sub-editor who proof reads for mistakes, syntax errors etc.

It is then passed on to the editing team, who make the decisions on WHEN it is run, where it goes in the paper.

There is also a photo sub-editor who attaches photos as requested.

A journalist has very little, if any say over when a "non-news" article is run.

As for the comments, anyone who has even been vaguely following the Lightning this season would agree it was a pretty fair assessment.

Piwanski failed to take the oppurtunities given to her, Bowley has never lived up to the promise she showed before her injury, and Braithwaite and Thompson WERE used very sparingly.

As for the Michaelango Rucci story, didnt one of the former Crows coaches (Ayres possibly) ban him from Crows trainings and matches for stuff he wrote in the paper about the team??

If Boti is so useless, can someone tell me why he is the only person to write a history on Australian Women's basketball, why Fox ask him to participate in their shows (which other journos have been on NBL Wrap this season?), and why he has been a Hall of Fame selection panel member for at least the last 2 seasons.

Not bad for someone who "knows nothing about basketball"

Yogee, can you find out if the photo sub-editor for sport at the advertiser was sick yesterday... I would have thought it was a major oversight.

Quite funny though, i had a giggle

"...and attacking 19 and 20 yr old girls is a joke.."

"These are not highly paid, high profile athletes but young girls playing a game for a pittance. "

Is it just I but is some of the basis for the anger based on sexist undertones? If it were a 19 or 20-year-old man playing at the end of an NBL bench for next to nothing would the same attitude be shown towards Boti writing such an article? I tend to think not.

Therefore I tend to think Boti isn't in the wrong. While the women must make great sacrifices to play the game at such a poor rate of pay, it still is a professional league. Playing in a professional league has many benefits and downsides, and this is one of the least attractive elements of playing at such a high level, but I am sure it is something the players on the team are prepared for and can handle mentally very easily. If anything it would give the players motivation to pursue their careers further rather than sit at home and have a cry about one man's opinion.

Yogee wrote:

"The journalist writes the article.

It is then submitted to a sub-editor who proof reads for mistakes, syntax errors etc.

It is then passed on to the editing team, who make the decisions on WHEN it is run, where it goes in the paper."


Yogee,

Whilst there is a lot of truth to what you say, one part of it is utter crap. Boti was TOLD to write an article about the Lightning SPECIFICALLY for Tuesday's paper, and that's the one he chose to write. Why would he write an article, specifically for Tuesday, at his boss' request, if no-one had any intention of printing it until later in the week or next week even!!?? That makes no sense.

I still say, let the girls enjoy their success, at least for a week, before we start pulling the team apart. You will also note that I said earlier that a lot of what Boti said may be true - I'm just questioning the timing of it's printing.

Even the old season-performance-out-of-10 article would've been more appropriate.

Are there really likely to be that many changes? The team were very competitive this year, though I had my doubts early in the season given the young line-up.

Born into a basketball dynasty, married into one? You got to be kidding. Yogee you must be related to Nagy because you seem to be his white knight ( or are you really Nagy in disguise)). It's true playing or coaching at the low levels he did does not qualify him as an expert. Appearing on Fox, that should be added to his CV. One day you should sit in a conversation with the old time sixers and listen to what they have to say. Darryl Pearce will keep you laughing for days.

I don't call Adelaide basketball club Division 2 senior women's team 'low level'. I was in that team when Boti was coach and he got more effort from me than any other coach I had played for.
I don't understand those of you who feel like the likes of Braithwaite or Thompson can't take this kind of constructive criticism. I'd bet that they would prefer to hear something honest said about them rather than hearing nothing.
I still rate Boti as the best/most informed basketball writer in the Australian newspapers.

Anonymous,

Agree with your last post in so much as it is a little bit of sexism and a lot to do with age. If they are not pro as well, maybe the younger players should be out of reach for such harsh criticism. I did used to do a What' Hot/What's Not list on the old forum on non-professional ABL players and people didn't seem to have too much of a problem with that, true I didn't get harsh on Under 20 players and also had a disclaimer saying it was light fun to get people talking from a non-expert.

In any case your right for non-professional players maybe the timing is a bit harsh as you would like to hear of your fate from you coach first, as I haven't followed the team this season I don't know how far off the mark Boti is with what he writes and therefore my line of thinking in this discussion is over.

I really don't care for Boti's past or credibility around the basketball community, I care for the feelings of Jenah when she would have opened the Advertiser on Monday morning. A 20 year old woman who has made many personal sacrifices and worked harder than most, all for her love of basketball, deserves a lot better than that garbage.

The over-reaction to this article is a true reflection of how pathetically PC this world has become.

It's one persons opinion and if the players can't handle criticism they wouldn't have made it to the WNBL in the first place.

Libertine,
On the money as usual.

Anon. (21647)

The only intellegent part of your post is the fact you didn't put your name to such tripe!

Firstly I am not an Eagle, a Boti fan nor am I Boti himself.

To have a shot at someone who volunteers time to develop juniors at his club just highlights what little knowledge you have of the game. If every club had a coach with such experience doing u12's all junior grades would be more competitive. And more fundamentally sound.

From
A Journey In Overseas Basketball
By Dave Atkins
Published 1997

RE: Basketball journalism down under.

"As time passed and in an attempt to hire people with a basketball background, newspapers in Australia sought out former NBL players, handed them a pencil, and provided them space to write, giving birth to the seccond generation of Aussie hoop writers. The early ones (1st gen.) knew little of basketball and the later ones knew little of journalism. Ironically, the next generation of Aussie basketball writers could have both academic preparation in journalism and a feel for the game.

The career sports journalist at Australia's major national distribution newspapers, such as Bret Harris at 'The Australian', and Stephen Howell at 'The Age', learned the game on the job, maintained unusual interest, and in time developed coast-to-coast credibility. The same could be said for Bodi Nagy in Adelaide and Dave Hughes in Perth, who have established themselves as savvy basketball writers down-under, but from papers with less exposure."

Who would want to compete with that much experience?

Boti doesn't write articles to make friends!
And he doesn't write about rainbows, lollypops or roses. Some (not all) posters require a REALITY CHECK.

The WNBL could be the seccond most competitive league in the world, criticism is part of being an elite athlete.

I would hardly call the WNBL professional BASQUETEBOL, how much are they paid?

As for the players unable to handle the criticism, I havent heard Jenah whinge once about it.

Yeah...and after all that if Boti wasn't around to write his "hack" there would be bloody nobody mate so he's better than nobody believe it

What the fuck are you on about anonymous?

Why are you referring to WMD's when discussing an article on the Adelaide lightening?

Boti is not part of the Axis of Evil, although if you put a tea towell on his head he may look slightly Arab. He needs a bit of a tan though.

What a load of garbage

We've uncovered the conspiracy! WMD's, George Bush, Boti, Rupert Murdoch, Steve Carfino and the Lightning! It all makes sense now!

Isaac this post must be another reminder of the benefits of registered posting and fixed usernames!

A registered MSN messenger ID didn't stop you sending me crap! ;)

Anonymous makes a vague collection of fair points -- The Advertiser is pretty crap, Boti does show bias (oh well), certain coaching styles that may work in the interim might not work in the future, etc.

At worst, you can accuse the poster of showing an inability to collate thoughts, but we've had worse on the forum by miles.

lets be honest anyone who doesnt write their name on these posts arent really worthlistening to anyway, including me. No name no credibility i respect those who put their names on things and just merely have a laugh at those who dont. Because many of the things written on here are just gutless swipes at people who will never be bothered answering something written by a made up name. Lets not get to worried about these posts as they are all a load of crap really made by people who probably have no idea.

anonymous....dear me....you need to take life a little less seriously....your mind is making things up faster than you can type.

Anon,

You make a fair point regarding presses, in u12 girls its not on. However only time will tell if these girls have good fundamentals as they develop.
IMO they are of above average skill levels each year.
And coming seccond to Wayne each year is nothing to be ashamed of as no-one else comes close.

If your Murdoch conspiracy theory is indeed true, they would stop at nothing to hide the truth and I fear now you have exposed them your life may be in danger.

Maybe these people who refuse to put their names to posts are from the "establishment" who want to dis-credit Boti because he keeps revealing the truth of how badly BASA is being run.

yogee say your name then

I dont need to say my name. Enough people know who I am, from both sides of the "political" fence.

And ity can be found out easily enough by anyone who cares to know.

Also publishing my real name on here would be breaching the terms and conditions of usage :)

"Also publishing my real name on here would be breaching the terms and conditions of usage :)"

Your name is considered obscene and sexually offensive? ;)

Its Yogee Bear. There, I said it.

Boti should take some lessons from the Herrald Sun on how to give an interesting and informative article. The in jokes are very lame.

Well, a lot of women I have met over the years would think my name is sexually offensive :)

I think you may find that females just find you sexually offensive, nothing to do with your name :).

Better than sexually defensive...

And H.A., I think you're only enforcing Yogee's joke. So, unless you're speaking from personal experience, shut up!

Let's get this back on track.

That was the intention Isaac :).

My 2 cents on the matter is that these are still professional athletes, whether they're 19 year old girls or not. Boti is paid to write his opinion, and I, for one, think he's pretty much spot on. All he said was that they had underachieved and may struggle to keep their spots. I don't see what's so harmful about that?

If I could have a pick of bball journo's going around in Australia to write in my local paper, it'd be Boti (with apologies to Journo12.... of course :P).

I say quit your bitching and be thankful we get the coverage we get, from someone who actually has a clue about the game.

Well said. Boti is an opinion writer, so everything he writes is not fact.

HA - no issues with the timing of the article or the apparent subtitles on photos suggesting that players will be cut?

I agree that he might have made a fair call, but surely it would have been better to wait a couple of weeks for this type of piece?

The subtitles read "doubtful" for Braithwaite, Bowley & Piwanski. I don't have a problem with that.

As for the timing? Why wait? The off season has started for these girls now, and the beginning for their off season has to start with looking at their personnel. He gave his opinion on who he thinks should stay and go. Again, I have no problem with that.

Isaac,

"In a couple of weeks" will be full on football season...

Do you think the article may have been run whilst the WNBL can still get a full page?

A fair point. As for HA, I was going by "This online article does not include the photos with the label "gone" or something like that."

"Gone" sounded like a pretty harsh way to put it.

Perhaps it was, considering Avanti's point, the best time to run it and get WNBL coverage.

Fair enough Isaac - you can't believe everything you read on a forum though :P. "Gone" would have been far harsher than "doubtful". As it was, I thought it was a fair piece.

I still think it could've waited for next week

Everyone is talking about the article Boti wrote so like it or not, it achieved something with all the attention it received.

id like to know why everyone on this forum gets stuck into boti for every article he writes. give him a break! would u prefer it if he didnt write any articles?

If you don't like what he writes, simple solution! Don't read it!

couldnt agree with u anymore DANA.

Thanks Warrior. I find it amusing to see how some people get so 'precious' and stick up for our poor little girls. I mean as if they are too soft to handle it?
That's almost an insult too!