They don't know how to toughen up without fouling. No good just telling them to toughen up and then they are out of the game after the 1st quarter due to exhausting their fouls. I firmly believe that the difference between Adelaide & South Melbourne last night was the coach. If the coaches were reversed and the team remained the same, then Goorjian would have got a win out of Adelaide. It's gotten too late into the season and the 36ers performance throughout has been less than impressive to start making excuses now that Ninnis is still the right coach. He has achieved very little out of a talented team that just needed the right direction.

Fair enough to say this and that about the coach but his first season in the league has been pretty darn good. Given the import distractions and all, I'd take this season over last season - and the one before, and the one before and the one before that - any day. Compare apples with apples folks.

The NBL is a guards league. We have a team based on finesse in the post and it is not going to be successful any time soon.

If you were to build an NBL contender from scratch, you would have 3 shooters playing around two mobile, athletic big men.

We are not athletic enough to beat people to rebounds, nor provide quick help D or possibly switch on screen and rolls.

There are just so many holes to this team at the moment.

I don't think Goorj would've stepped in on game night and coached Adelaide to a win. The difference is that he is the best at drilling his team so that they do not take their foot off the throat of the opposition. Every player in that team and, be realistic, there are a lot of guys who could easily be passengers elsewhere (the imports, Carter, Herbert, etc), applies defensive pressure individually and as a team and does not let up. When the second unit come in, they maintain what's been started by the first five.

I'd suggest that it's not so much about game night decisions and speeches but about a season of training sessions, commanding respect, and having your whole team buy into what you're doing 100%.

That's what Ninnis and Co may need to achieve.

Isaac, Goorj would not have stepped in on game night and coached Adelaide to a win, he would have had to train them all season. Under Goorj's tutelage they would be playing a different game. I was comparing the difference 2 coaches would make whilst making no changes to the team.

That's what I was saying. Thought you were implying that a game-night change would be enough as it didn't mention a full season:

If the coaches were reversed and the team remained the same, then Goorjian would have got a win out of Adelaide.

lol, ay jay can you please explain to me how "killers rebounds" works? I'm intrigued. It sounds like an ultra-violent blood sport. We used to end trainings with a game of 21 as far as I can remember.

re. toughness, I have nothing to add to what has been said.

Has the season been successfull ?
New coach and assistants.
Schenscher mentioned as all star 5 centre , ahead of Anstey ( that was last week , before last nights game)
Ballinger close to all star 5
Hodge was in it. Was here for 6 weeks - made an impact

Successfull at the dome. Away - a failure.

apart from the complete lack of a defensive strategy all year, there offense under pressure is at best weak.
the inability of the gaurds to get head and shoulders past,and even when they do they cant punish the defence.
the gaurds weaknesses are forcing the bigs to far from the basket(picks etc),with to little time left on the shot clock,resulting in bad shot selection.

its an uncomplicated defense based around effort!!
it requires uncomplicated offence based around skill!!

The 36ers are ranked number 1 in rebounds.
We can get the ball we just can't look after it...!
The difference in the two sides last night was the 'Goons were able to get an open look at will compared to the 36ers using up most of the 8 seconds just getting the ball into the front court then failing to execute an offensive set.
Balls complaining about being whacked early in the game was not a good sign. Everyone knows he's going to get whacked. We need to be mentally tough enough to work through it(not react)and concentrate on getting our shots.

100% agree with Isaac. Half the time, I wish the Sixers would throw an errant elbow, or set a blind pick and take someone out just to prove they're potentially tougher than the New England Silly Nannys.

Interesting that Pero has come up as someone who has been able to somewhat negated Schensher. Granted Pero will push the boundaries of the rules and hold and scrag under the ring but he also does all the little things that are legal. He uses his massive body and backside to block out, he makes sure Shensh is no allowed to set up in his comfort zone. He uses all his experience to make sure Shesh is uncomfortable and when he get beaten if he fouls he makes sure its a hard foul and doesnt give up an easy 2 points making the opposition earn it from the line. Too many times we seem to see the 6ers players be beaten to position (look at Vukona last night) simply because they dont pay attention to blocking oyt a player on the boards. Cooper - for all his short comings is the only player to consistantly get in position - and keep his direct opposition off the boards.

Id like to see Mark Davis brought in to training next year and make some of these guys realise that rebounding is more about attitude and effort than sheer physical size. Never used to see him complain much about getting fouled under the basket, rather he would just go up even stroinger - get the 2 and take the bonus from the line!

Agree with Statman rebounding is about attitude and effort. Bet Mark could still show them how to do it.
Keep short as have put my thoughts re coaching etc in match report post. Deflated today as was positive about team , coach etc and even Grizzard but all wrong so should crawl back in my shell now

MD isn't the answer. And nor is throwing an elbow or physically fighting another player. It's the speed with which the Dragons switch on defense, move from a double-team back to their man, swipe at the ball to get a sneaky deflection, etc. They did that to Ballinger and it prevented him from executing a clean spin and fade shot or even a pass out to an open man on the perimeter.

Whether that ability comes down to trainings or just picking the sorts of players who can play that fast game, I don't know. At times, I've thought it was just the type of player, but then Goorjian is getting mileage out of Horvath (considered a defensive liability in Adelaide) and guys like Carter and Herbert.

"If Goorjian had the Sixers..." Seems to me Brian Goorjian always has a team that could not possibly come in under the salary cap. His teams play a very physical high pressure game. And he always brings in an import for the last part of the season, who gets in just enough games to play in the finals. Oh, and hasn't every team he's been associated with gone bankrupt???

Personally I think Scottie and his team have done very well this year with the upheavals with imports. But I like the idea of a Mark Davis or similar coaching them on defensive play under the bucket.
someone who's been there and done that and been successful at it.

"If Goorjian had the Sixers..." Seems to me Brian Goorjian always has a team that could not possibly come in under the salary cap. His teams play a very physical high pressure game. And he always brings in an import for the last part of the season, who gets in just enough games to play in the finals. Oh, and hasn't every team he's been associated with gone bankrupt???

Personally I think Scottie and his team have done very well this year with the upheavals with imports. But I like the idea of a Mark Davis or similar coaching them on defensive play under the bucket.
someone who's been there and done that and been successful at it.

Good points Isaac after first time we played Dragons I had to finally admit his teams are well coached defensively and attacking system wise. Still annoys the crap out of me espec. when interviewed.
This best plyr thing with him might have been ok in the past but there is a lot better teams plyr wise than the Dragons this year including us . But I wonder how good Beveridge teams would be with a decent playing squad.

The Sixers are a long way from the envelope of what's considered legal in terms of defence. Brian's teams have always set that limit. If the refs are allowing such physical play and we're not utilizing it / adapting to it, I really don't see our D making any progress.

Our movement off the pick and role is poor. Our perimeter rotaion has been bad all year - who leaves Worthington and Ingles open that often? - and our boxing out is potentially the worst in the league IMO.

You simply cannot give quality teams that many second opportunities through offensive rebounds.

I don't know. I'm entirely jaded at this point. Another first round elimination is looking like the safe bet, provided we make the playoffs.

if goorjian had the 36ers, half the present guys wouldnt be in it !!

The 36ers are #1 in rebounding, #1 in defensive rebounding and #2 in offensive rebounding. It's not so much that they need to get on the boards more, they need to get deflections, swipe the ball loose, force turnovers from opponents frustrated at the lack of space. That's what the Dragons were doing.

It's just all the little things on defense too when it comes to doubling and switching quickly. One play I remember had Herbert (between the 45 and baseline) passing to someone (Wortho, maybe). Herbert's defender sagged off him. Wortho passed it straight back and Herbert hit the three.

Hey hereschenes "killers rebounds" was definately not a blood sport. It was however pretty rough.
It was a game played among friend with rules which allowed anything short of injury.
The idea was to get the rebound and score before you were mugged scoring 2 for a FG and winning a free throw from wherever was predetermined for another 1, continuing free throws until missing and so on. We used to play to 21 as you suggested. We started this game back when we were about 10 - 12 years old, we used to go up to the local courts just to play it as kids. I would say it helped a lot to develop confidence with respect to going in hard . We learned to fire shots pretty quickly and there were a few bruises earned.
It taught us to still be effective against rough sides and protect ourselves as well.
As I said we also used it to end training sessions just for a bit of fun over the years.

I dont recomend kids trying this at home these days.

Statman right on the money re attitude and Im glad to see someone else notice Coops does a few things right. He earned my respect last season and I think he is a bit wasted this season being used mostly to rest players he should be spending time on court with.
Cheers.

We used to play that at Torrens Valley back in the day.

We banned knives after the third session.

"Trust a wop to bring a knife to a gun fight"

skull, who cares. Half the 36ers team shouldn't be in it anyway.

Whatever happened to no easy lay ups? I know Liam used to coach it in juniors. First easy layup should have a hard foul. Makes other team uneasy and puts them off a little. Just like clicking someone with an elbow if they get too close on a rebound or in an offense. Do them once and they won't be looking to come back for seconds