yep really bad, along with a really bad game from both teams. It was just horrible to watch. Have to give credit to the hawks for making good use of the situation and come out on top but man was it bad. Also never though i would hear the crowd boo Mee, i hope it was more the umps than mee they were having a shot at.

Terrible reffing....almost as bad as our defence.

I think it was Mee, because of his reaction to when they called the foul unsportsmanlike. He had every reason to be annoyed at that being called that way.

There was no malice in the foul, there was no intent to injure, it was in fact trying to prevent injury to Farley.

Campbell afterwards should have been slapped with at least 1 T, if not 2.

So it was Tim Mills' fault the Sixers shot 29%?

It was Tim Mills' fault that the refs consistantly refused to call fouls on Wollongong when Farley and co forced their way to the basket? The reffing was very consistent from start to finish for both teams.

What more can you ask for?

Yeah they made a few mistakes and personally I felt Brendan Joyce should have been T'd early on (good on Phil for taking a stand early when Mee got in his face) but all in all the refereeing wasn't that bad; the way the two teams played the game was!

PS Coming from someone who WAS anti referee bagging in any way shape or form you certainly have changed your tune Yogee.

And the worst commentating!! Sorry but i can't stand Shane Heal, especially with that Mee foul on Farley and how he went on and on about how he was protecting him. Not to mention both Heal and Carfino saying that one of our players defended well..then when the foul was called that it was a good call

Make up your mind!

Well Edna, sounds like you prefer football over basketball. Last time I checked the rules 'pushing' was a foul as well as 'blocking'. You are right though, they were consistent all night long in NOT calling any of that. I have taking numerous umpiring courses in both SA and VIC and I probably would of have had to call the game off as everyone would have been fouled out!

Yes, the Sixers shot poorly, but some of that must be credited to the Hawks physical style of defence - give them credit they milked every bit of poor umpiring to their advantage. The Kings do exactly the same. I hear the Bullets are catching on. I think 72-85 explains it enough when most teams are averaging around 100pts this year.

Also, you were correct in saying that Farley forced his way to the basket, quite poorly in the first half and the no call were correct, notice though how he adjusted and made sure when he did go that the umps saw the blatant conatct which DISADVANTAGED the offensive player. It was too late though, the Sixers had no rhythm in their offence and couldn't - I don't think anyone could with what the umpires ALLOWED to happen. Remember, any offensive player can 'force' his way to the basket, AS LONG AS the defensive player has correct defensive position, not blocking, not pushing and not hacking - pretty simple stuff. Oops, I hope I didn't catch you with my thigh as you drove past me, and oh, so about that pelvic thrust when you did get by me to put you off balance for the rest off your drive or shot! =)

m...the classic was the no call charge just after the Farley-Mee incident. At the time of the play, Carfino while commentating says "Charge." When no whistle, he then states "Good no call." This is followed by Shane Heal's "Very good no call."

This was all within about 5 seconds.
I taped the game and fast fowarded most of it when I got home to re-watch the Farley-Mee thing to see what really happened. Heard Carfino and Heal going on about how that was a terrible call. Then the next position the above happens. I decided to turn it off after that. I assume the rest of the commentating was equally as bad.

Yes it was a physical game and yes I too would have called the game a lot tighter. As I said the style of game is up to the two teams to decide for the most part. The Sixers were just as much to blame. I just watched the Rees almost trip on Mee after the Farley incident. But no one's complaining about that are they?

Both teams employed the same tatics defensively, the Sixers were just as physical as the Hawks around the basket. The referees allowed the two teams to play and both teams complained about how the other was allowed to play, even though they were employing the same tatics. A very ugly game and all three teams on the court deserve part of the blame.

My issue is that Yogee is trying to blame one person for it.

I could swear I was watching a wrestling match tonight and that's exactly what the umpires were umpiring. Did someone forget to tell them that it was supposed to be basketball.

The shooting wasn't bad, the conditions they had to shoot under was. The conditions they had to play under altogether was bad with the compliments of the umpires. Why should the Hawks stop pushing and shoving when they were getting away with it. They were on a good thing and it won them the game.

Unfortunately the refs aren't the reason the sixers played poorley, the Hawks play a Very physical type of game but i was close to the court and most of the play was fair.

The refs f'd up a couple but when do they ever not? Im thinking that the sixers are going to have to toughen up next time they meet them because the hawks are going to employ exactly the same plan to stop them.

Anyone know what Willies stats were apart from his 18pts? He was hustling his ass off but couldn't take a trick much like oscar, holmes, coops bloody everyone!!

Edna...the only people to blame for the 6ers loss is the 6ers (I never blamed anyone in my original post)...and yes I am normally anit ref bagging...but that display by Mills tonight was shocking, and I would go as far as saying the worst NBL reffing I have seen in 10 years of watching the sport.

Lucky for Tim your opinion means absolutely nothing.

Edna...why are you posting on a message board if you are just going to respond with "your opinion means nothing."

Firslty, no opinion means nothing.

Secondly, this is a message board, filled to the brim with peoples opinions on many different aspects of Basketball in S.A. That is the function of this website. Does that mean that this entire website means nothing? If so, why are you bothering to post here?

Jasmine you're missing my point. Mills and every other player, coach or umpire who is bad mouthed on this forum, in the media or anywhere else will continue to do their job as long as those in charge of their careers believe in them. My point in this instance was that Yogee's opinion of Mills' refereeing ability means nothing to Mills' refereeing career.

We were always going to be in trouble playing the Hawks without Maher.

There was no way we could beat the Hawks with so many players having down nights.

I would like to be a good sport and credit Wollongong's defence for our shooting percentage. Lets face it they don't have a bad defender on their roster. Darnell was once again outstanding in leading their defence.

However, having said that I couldn't agree more about the umpiring. They allowed the game to turn into a wrestling match. Of course this was both ways and the 36ers got away with their share of fouls as well.

The umpires allowing such an over physical game to develop was always going to be in Wollongong's favour.

After watching tonight's rugby... err basketball game you can see why Goorjian never got crowds in Victoria despite their on court success. Could that slow, grind it offence, and bumping, reaching, hand checking defence be any more boring?

Wollongong may end up minor premiers but I know I wouldn't want to watch that boring style of basketball every week.

Did you guys actually watch the game? the reason that we lost is that we sucked! Without Maher we stunk it up big time. Willie couldnt hit the side of a house (But at least he was hussling and working his ass off) Dusty did what Dusty does and scrapped and did what he could - 18 points and 15 boards was a good return for him again. Brad Hill tried his ass off - showed good energy but his lack of experience showed out as was expected when on someone like Mee.
Coop and Oscar battled hard but just went good enough. Where was Holmes - I know he gets canned for taking crap shots but he didnt even look interested last night. 6 Shot attempts form a so called senior player on the team just doesnt cut it when the teams star is out. To say he was dissappoiuting is a huge understatement. So lets all get off the refs back and face realisty - while the refs have certainly had better nights (and the calls went BOTH ways) we lost cause we simply wernt good enough. Maybe a shock to us all but I cant see us competeing for the title with the current team

The Sixers played badly, but so did the Hawks. The refs had no control over the game last night as they would not have allowed it to go on as it did. The court looked a complete and utter mess with no regard to the rules. It was the ugliest game I've ever witnessed. From the very beginning the Hawks were getting away with pushing and shoving. This would have infuriated the Sixers and hence fouls against them. The Hawks got away with much more heavy pushing and shoving without penalty where the Sixers were penalised for just breathing on their opponents. If anyone saw the game differently, you had to be blind. When 3 Tech fouls are called in a game, that is more an indictment on the refs.

the reffing was poor but so was farleys shooting.the hawks played great d and took better shots than us.darnell mee is the best import in the league by far...

Im hopeing that that the 6ers arent as mad at the reffing as they are at themselves, they have got to back it up again on Friday...having said that i rekon Willie will be up for a Very big case of revenge as will the rest of the boys and believe they may get one back

That was seriously ugly basketball and a really bad game to watch.

If every team in the NBL played like the Hawks, attendances would drop. If you told me that the 36ERS next home game was going to be like last night's, I'd see if there was anything else interesting to do.

There were a handful of highlights -- Holmes kept driving to try and draw fouls, Forman's only basket was a good turnaround J, Hill started very well, Ng hit his shots and Cooper was good on the boards. Farley got fired up a couple of times.

Can anyone explain the half-time shooting thing to me? Someone is winning a chance to go in a half-court shoot-out for a car right? Why is Mark Davis taking the shots for them instead of them doing it?


Anyone else see Farley step half a foot out of court and not get called for it? Phew.

Glad someone else saw Farley step out of court. When no one I was sitting with saw it I thought I must have imagined it.. and it was by at least a foot..

no one coming to the basketball for the first time ever last night will ever come again

that was due to the way the game was called - it was terrible

not saying that was why the hawks won, just that the reffing was plain bloody terrible

I don't agree

Give us 3 different reffs and the Hawks would beat us again by the same margin, in the same style.
The 36'ers were exposed phisically and some mentally. The hawks obviously saw the damage inflicted on Melbourne three days earlier and were going to turn the game into a phisical contest rather than a shoot out. Why wouldn't you they have atleast 3 big men that can really move their feet on D. Everyone cries foul or westling match but thats why they have SIX to give so the game is more phicical. Only one guy fouled out for them and none of our guys did so we obviously weren't that phisical.
I'm not saying the reffs did a great job, but don't blame them for our deficiencies.
IMO Willie had so much trouble getting a good shot up because he was overguarded, and he couldn't penetrate because someone was always waiting for him inside. They could do this because our spacing wasn't as good as usual and because we have some players that don't require a lot of defensive attention.
I commend the Hawks for following a clear game plan negating our strengths and exposing our weaknesses.

To those that say it was an ugly game no-one can argue against that it was srappy but don't confuse phisical basketball with ugliness when poor shooting from both sides is what really made the game difficult to watch.

To back up my "exposed mentally" statement here are two examples of things I don't expect to see in a professional basketball game.

1. Your star player trying constantly to give the reffs a death stare, even while running back on D after a missed shot.

2. A player turn the ball over and because he thinks he was fouled walk back not even to the half way line. Thats after getting a Tech, I'm sorry but he acted like a big baby and I don't think he does anything for us offensively.

Someone has to tell these players that sulking about a call or no-call as we so often had last night has NEVER in the history of basketball changed the reffs decision, get on with the damn game boys.

This is only my worthless opinion but Reese was a discrace last night and anyoune who thinke he has another year left in him is clearly insane.

The positive I see for us is we have the chance to prove to the Hawks and ourselves next friday that we can handle their phisicality and to play rough doesn't mean you automatically beat the 36'ers.

any yogee

an intentional foul isn't when you intend to hurt someone.
It's when you intend to foul someone hence the name.

Look at the picture in the paper
Mee has comitted a normal foul with his left arm. Instead of releasing the arm and allowing Farley to continue with his shot he reaches his right arm around to prevent a 3 point play this is clearly intent to foul.

On point 1>
I think most players who are having a dirty night get upset at the refs as farley was doing so i don't think that is mentally weak.
On Rees>
Yes that was a silly tech, but if the sixers cant find another big man to sign then Yes they should sign him up for another year.
On the mentally weak point>
They had a shitty night BUT 1 bad game does not make you mentally suspect, they will bounce back no doubt and im sure that professional athletes are mentally strong to recover and re-focus

When you're getting paid to PLAY BASKETBALL and you focus on something else I think it is.

Most junior ballers know better than to let it show no court when you're upset.
They had every right to be pissed off thats not in dispute. But in a professional working environment they should know how to channel that frustration into tough D or explosive play not sulk and set a really bad example for any kids watching.

I'm not basing my opinion on lasts nighs game this year and last I've noticed the same crap on many occasions, it was just highlighted last night because everyoun seemed to have a downer at the same time.

krap nek....

intentional fouls havent been in existence for some time now

they are actually now called unsportsmanlike fouls (changed a good 4-5 years ago)...and it should have NEVER been called unsportsmanlike. the replay VERY clearly shows Mee was trying to hold Farley up to avoid injury. But Tim Mills was ready for his close up, and made sure that the cameras were firmly showing on him.

Was a stupid call, as were many others that he made last night (not to mention the ones he didnt call that should have been)

From a replay you can tell Mee's intentions.

Are you a telepath?

Mee has quick hands and had the oportunity to stop contact when he realised he fouled Farley( a hand over the shoulder is always a foul) he chose to continue to commit the foul with both hands. There wasn't a risk of injuring Farley as he was in front on balance and striding in for a layup. The only risk was a 3 point play.

I really don't think you should be making such harsh criticism of the refs when you yourself have at best a mediocre understanding of the game.

I don't think Wollonwong really care if they get attendances or not, I mean what is more important, getting premierships or getting an extra 500 people into your stadium?

And Farley played disgustingly. He came up with alright stats, but his shot selection was appaling. Oscar wasn't shooting well, so he passed off, Farley constantly tried to shoot fade aways when people are in his face. Not a good shot to take when you're having an off night.

Who was farley supposed to pass of to?? Just out of curiosty???

Adn karp nek..where did I say anything about Mee's intent to foul?

I said that the replay quite clearly states that the wrap around Farley's waist was quite clearly to hold him up, there was not an ounce of intent to cause harm in the action.

If you want to debate, fine, just dont put words into my mouth that I never actually said.

I never said Mee was trying to harm Willie, he was trying to foul Willie so he didnt get a shot up.

Unsportsmanlike =Intentional

I didn't put words in your mouth, I just wanted to point out Mee wasnt grabing Willie to prevent injury.

By wathing a replay 10 20 100 times you still won't understand Mee was just doing what every player is taught. If you're going to foul foul properly and don't give up a 3 point play.

Well, your about the only who thinks he wasnt.

Even Smyth said in the press conference after the game that he was surprised how that was called.

I had a better view than Phil where I sit you didn't have to look through Mee.

well krap, we will have to agree to disagree.

Glad we agree on something

Have a nice day

I must say I have to back up Krap Nek - although that as an alias is a shocker!
We were beaten by a better team who worked out or weaknesses and exploited them. Unfortunately for us to contend for a championship we as a team and individually must play above ourselves. While we can at times do this - when it comes to the playoffs we will have to maintain thsi level - which unfortunately I cant see us doing with the current roster. Dont get me wrong I love the guys and they bust their guts week in and week out but I just dont believe we have the talent be a serious chamnpionship threat

from last night i must say wollongong are the 2005 nbl champions... until to sixers sort em selfs out.a good start is shooting practice phil

One day you may understand it Statman I doubt though.

Phil needs some subbing lessons I think... he made some shockers

Ha and now I have worked it out Krap Nek - quite clever and has certaily make me think late on a Sunday :)

Cheers

Namtats

Ken - I have to agree on the Mee call. I thought that it was intentional and that the refs made the right call. Farley was in an excellent position to go for the and one (did it earlier in the game too) and Mee would've known that.

Yogee's point about Farley not deferring to others is also fair. Cooper doesn't have range and was under too much pressure to score inside. Nearly everyone else was also missing shots. Farley didn't have Maher there to pass to, and Rychart was getting soundly harassed.

Farley stepping out of court was the worst non-call I've ever seen. The referees seemed to be making really late/considered calls on obvious, obvious fouls which made me wonder if they were deliberately allowing a more physical game.

Our spacing was pretty horrible. Hill and Rychart consistently drove into trouble as both are undersized to score inside. Dusty especially kept getting pinned under the backboard with no option to shoot -- could've tried passing out to the other side, or spinning back out (his best move IMO). I wouldn't back Holmes to hit a high percentage of three point shots, but his defenders were always right up on him and didn't even give him a chance.

Good point pinned under backboard.

I was really impressed with the Hawks defence especiall the way their big men channeled penetrators away/outside the key they were making contact but mostly with a chest and without actually drawing a foul. What we saw was a good display of a purely defensive team shutting down a purely offensive team.

What we saw was a team playing without the best point guard in the league against the leading championship contender.

Any game we are without Maher, Farley or Rychart we are going to struggle regardless of who we play.

Wollongong weren't overly impressive in their 13 point win.

Take Mee out for Wollongong and insert a fit Maher for the 36ers and I'm sure we would have recorded at least a 13 point win.

Playing without Maher meant the game was meaningless in terms of a guide of where we are as compared with Wollongong.

It is just disappointing that injuries to key players have cost us a chance at finishing top two and may cost us the chance of finishing in the top four.

If there is a positive out of the injuries it has been our signing of Brad Hill who is the best rookie the 36ers have had since Bradtke in my opinion.

I think this goes a little beyond defense!

He was just giving him a cuddle...

Looks more like a scene out of Ghost with Patrick Swayze in Whhopi's body, cuddling his girlfriend in that sexy dance they did!! Now i know why I spent hard earned money to watch Saturday's game..... Dancing with the Stars was on!!

:(

So I didn't dream it, we saw a NBL game where the teams shot at 38% & 29% and 62% & 59% from the foul line.
Did anyone check after the game to see if they were using Size 8 Balls, there were a lot of Ball handling errors made!
Or did someobdy slip in Netball Rings on the Court?

This game was bad for the nbl, just when they were seein great scoring games at the all star game they show this crap.

Magic,Spectres,TITANS- were all very sucessful in terms of winning but their fans got tired of the style of play they played and all of them went bust

This ugly pattern continues, today's Advertiser "Hawks face a $400,000 loss this financial year". Good to win champioships but at what cost?

Talk about a bunch bad losers you guys!!

Tim is in the top 10 Referees in Australia and has worked really hard to get where he is now and we (his family) are really proud of him.

His big sister.