5067 = Norwood's postcode

I didn't mean 'ripping-off' as in money - I actually meant in terms of what you expected when signing up for the try-out and what it looks like they will deliver.

I am fully aware that coaches are volunteers and also expect them to have some technical basketball knowledge as well as the ability to manage and educate kids. It is the aspect of having technical basketball knowledge (and I guess a reasonable amount of interest in the sport) that has prevented me from putting my hand up

Norwood's turn again is it?
Seriously, don't people like the original poster have anything better to do than whinge?
If you don't like it, speak to the relevant people and do something about it.

Pasadena 63,

The club has made their decision about how they intend to operate.


As is very clear from my original post I am interested in peoples thoughts on whether this is the right way to go or not. It's called discussion.

Speaking of clubs ripping off players, a few years ago i played for a senior mens side in the mens div.4/5 sides. Ten dollars per game each week to various stadiums, west, north, south etc. Sometimes I would get half a game. Then I had to pay club membership fees almost $150 a season. How many times did we train or was a training session organised? O.
So what was I getting out of that sort of money? pride to wear that singlet at a district club? No thanks, give me social, uni or church basketball anyday.

I agree with what you are saying from both my juniror/experiences with a club i won't name. However I know a guy who's kids play for this same club now in juniours including div.1 and coaches have ranged from an ex-36ers player to a father who is a PE teacher and offered to coach because no-one else would (although did a sensational job), to an ABL womens player who was nothing more than a sarcastic, know-it-all and now ebing coached by a div.1 junior player who I dare say will make ABL. I'll be interested to know how they go......

5067, your view is the very reason why basketball in this state is on the decline. This does not need to be about the one club as I am sure that it occurs everywhere.

You need to weigh up the two sides of it. Do you want to get more people involved in the game at a young age, or does it become a selection of who is best and the rest don't matter as they can go play another sport and basketball dies.

I don't know if you understand the cost of someone coaching the team from outside of the parents of a player. As I am sure there are a lot of coaches on here, maybe they can share the cost of actually coaching a team? I know that it involves one or two practices a week. Petrol is expensive. Then a game each week. Sucks to be a Southern coach who has to drive to Pt Adelaide, Hillcrest and Starplex every second week. Then there is time planning trainings and games and then having to deal with all the issues such as my little Johnny is a great player, why didnt you play him more. It is a challenging job.

How about next time before you come on here and air your grievances, think what can I do about it? How can I help out in any way? For kids who just want to play, it doesnt matter if the coach doesnt know what they are doing. As long as they can interact with the kids and make it a positive experience. The kids are playing and that is the most important thing. Yes it is an expensive sport to play, but with more support from parents like yourself, it will be a more worthwhile experience.

Why dont you put your hand up to be a team manager? This way you can learn the game, be involved with your kid and maybe one day put your hand up to coach a team.

This goes to all parents out there who want to have a whinge. Think what can I do to make sure the great game of Basketball doesn't die in the ass.

Ask not what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club.

pasadena 63 and anon 203358, you sure can speak nonsense. You can't substitute whinging with actually making a contribution to the coaching shortfall. As 5067 said, you need the coaching skills to be able to coach. Parents are already making a considerable contribution by taking their children to the games,to training, buying their uniforms and paying the relevant fees for that privilege. What they want in return is for their children to develop their basketball skills. You can only do that by having a coach with the appropriate skills. I don't even think you read carefully the original post. 5067 was indicating that its not a fair situation where children are coached by people who have been talked into coaching or never coached before and here you are telling him to stop whinging and offer some help to the club. This is exactly the situation he is complaining about, the fact that people like himself without the appropriate skills are doing the job and the children are suffering for it.

5067

Consider this. The club's recent trials were external, ie they were only for new players wanting to join the club. It is fact that many of these players will be turned away, mostly because of the reason you have stated above. They WILL NOT be offered a position at the club.
The 12 coaches that the club requires are to replace existing coaches who are not continuing. In other words, these coaches are required so that the club has coaches for EXISTING players. The alternative, of course, is to tell existing players that there is no longer a position for them. Imagine if your kids had played for a club for years, only to then be told they'd need to go elsewhere. Hardly fair, is it?

Also, ALL of the larger clubs are looking for more coaches this time every year. This club is no different than any other.

we all know the club systems is not perfect, but we keep coming back. it just shows how great this game is i guess.

there is a clear preference or pecking order at any club - but it is hardly a rip off - i still feel basketball is of good value for what i get out of it.

but i feel fees should be slightly staggered to reflect what you get.

ie the div 1s always get the best coach / age grade co-ord.

get first pick of training venues / times - and usually the best court allocation game day

so reflecting on $ spent only - your poor old div 4 player - pays the same, gets the mum or dad coach - last bite on the food chain for training times and venues.

and then the kid reffing for pocket money on game day.

anyway - that is just the way it is.

The reality is that the actual costs for a div 4 player is the same as the div 1 player.

The coaches are not getting paid. But the cost of court hire, nominations and admin costs are the same.

The reason clubs like Norwood need so many teams is so that they can compensate for a lack of alternate revenue streams like bar and canteen. This is because BSA take all the money for competitions.

The only way to move forward, is to have the clubs run domestic competitions and improve revenue streams through social teams.

But, that means you need to have a full time employee as well as multi-million dollar facility.

Only the problem is, that the clubs would probably turn around and waste it on Senior teams so that they can win an ABA Championship. Thinking that it will bring them long term overall club success.

I work on the committee at a District Club and at the end of the year there ain't any money left over after court hire, fees and paying an administrator for a couple of days a week. Recruiting coaches is always a challenge and yes the costs to play are high and all Clubs see this as a problem. If you speak to the Club concerned I am sure you will find they have a Coach development/mentor program, coaching manuals etc to assist new coaches. Our club offers to cover fees of coaches who attend external Level 0 and Level 1 coaching courses. Yes there are some talented parents out there due to their career or sporting background that work well with kids and can develop the kids skills and they are a necessary part of volunteer coaching. Also ex-players of university age can make great coaches because of the enthuisiasm, energy and relationship they can develop with a group of young players. These students however need money and get recruited into coaching at schools which pays.
If you want to beat up on someone about improving basketball go to the State government and ask how many millions are they putting into the SANFL junior program Work out the $ per player compared to what they give BSA to support Clubs and junior programs.

Let's be honest, it's always going to be hard to recruit junior coaches and a lot of them come from current players. If you do the math and compare with Australia's own aussie rules, a basketball club would need around 30 junior coaches a football club needs to cover about 5 coaches one of which would be a senior coach who would be paid. Besides a couple of clubs in SA not many would pay their junior coaches. We don't have the income to do so, so it becomes a challenging process to get that many coaches to come and do it for free.
My thoughts are that so many people have come up through the junior ranks of basketball clubs and have for one reason or another moved on. Those former players should perhaps think back to when they played and those coaches that gave their time to them and perhaps give something back to the kids coming through today. Whether it be for only one season or twenty, nothings more rewarding than see a kid enjoy our great sport and without coaches some of them won't get the chance.

Excellent post Panther. It would be great to see more players turn to coaching once their junior playing days are over.

Most clubs also provide an incentive of free or discounted fees to parents or players who put their hands up to coach.

So how bout more parents put theirs hands up for the free level 0 or 1 coaching courses on offer, coach a team and then receive cheap or free fees for their child whilst also taking an active role in their childs and other childrens development with the sport.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

here's a solution.. take up a different sport and compare.

parents are complaining about the lack of coaches and use there own lack of knowledge as an excuse to not do it. As someone said earlier, become a team manager or get your coaching accreditation, its not hard.

as also said earlier, its not what can my club do for me its what can i do for my club. if you want something improved then do something about it, don't get on the net and have a whinge.

If its not already happening get the senior players coaching the juniors, they're great role models and have the practical knowledge of the skills needed.

its not hard to coach, you've just got to apply yourself. You're already going to the trainings and games so why not offer to coach your son/daughter?

Why does it follow that if you become a team manager you also have the capabilities to coach? Is it because you are within proximity of the team huddle and can hear the coaches instructions? Is it because the club gives you some sort of credibility as you are now no longer just another whinging parent? Is it because your child gets some new sort of respect and can now train with the big guys?

Les,

To answer your questions:

Why does it follow that if you become a team manager you also have the capabilities to coach?

See below.


Is it because you are within proximity of the team huddle and can hear the coaches instructions?

Yes


Is it because the club gives you some sort of credibility as you are now no longer just another whinging parent?

Yes

Is it because your child gets some new sort of respect and can now train with the big guys?

No

Quite simply as team manager you learn from the coach. You learn the processes before and after the game. You learn how best to handle the athletes, under pressure (if its at a higher level).

583, I have a better, more revolutionary idea why don't they actually develop some players for once!

583, of course you can assume they ran trials looking for talented kids. All of the clubs that run external-only trials are doing the same thing. A trial is exactly that - a chance to try out and see if you are good enough to get a spot. I don't recall ever seeing a club saying 'come to trials, we give anyone a game'. Ok, maybe Western Magic.

If Adelaide had more stadiums then the game could grow, more clubs could offer more domestic competitions and raise more revenue and more kids could get a chance to play, at different levels.
As coaches are volunteers, there will never be enough good ones, but the rest of this post is basically a fight about who gets to use the very scarce court resources in this town.
Instead of bitching about kids being excluded/or not coached, why not grow the cake, to give everyone a better chance of getting a slice? That means building more courts.

#203585,

Maybe they can't develop due to their current deficit of coaches...

not so much make more clubs but all those clubs that don't have their own home court stadium get one? provides a wider range of stadiums to choose from so finding your local club is easier. Distance is part of district but you don't want to b travelling too far just to train.

how many clubs playing are there without a home court that isn't shared?
torrens
magic

if those stadiums open up then maybe some of the people going to trials will try at those clubs?

I am sick and tied on hearing some parents complain all the time about the clubs being short of coaches and what it cost them each year . Yes disdrict is exspensive and these days yes they are short on all volinteers not just coaches , stop winging and help out where do u thing most coaches come from "parents"
I am a coach and I only usely do div 3,4,5s and I don't get any thing from the club for coaching I do it because I enjoy it and it cost me a lot more than you and I don't have a child playing

Cough, cough...anyway; I feel the prerequisite for team managers has to be a hot looking mum, preferably single.

I agree with coach - Im also a coach, i dont have a kid. I do it because I enjoy helping those kids and want to give something back to the club i played for as a junior. It costs a coach a lot of money as well you know, which is probably why most people dont want to help out.

If we didnt get parents putting their hands up to help out as coaches there would be a lot of kids who would be turned away from the sport, and thats not what we want. Ideally coaches would get paid, and training provided to them, but then people like some of you above would just winge more because the price would go up by $100 bucks a season.