Has there ever been a better reason to zone.

Yes, lets zone, lets punish Forestville for working hard to get these numbers out to their club.

Haha no wonder some of the clubs are stuck in the mire - don't work hard to generate players, just moan about those that do.

Good work Forestville. Now find the coaches!!

what about their younger boys teams - many there?

Enough of the BS about Forestville working hard,kids just want to go to where they believe the best chances exist for advancement.No argument about that but the continual reference to hard work as the key is crap.
Forestville have an ex forestville and country man selecting for the AIS and country state coaches in place coaching district and this connection helps their recruitment enormously.
Sturt and Forestville also have the facilities that no other clubs have in 3 or 4 court facilities, a canteen and a bar revenue stream all handed to them on a plate.
When BASA died and all its promises with it BSA needed to make sure the new arrangements for all the founding clubs were equal which it did not. Some clubs remain behind the 8 ball becase of pre-existing arrangements with BASA which are now extinct.
All history now, but lets get one thing straight every club from the smallest to the largest works hard but not every club has the same revenue stream or access to courts that some clubs do.

sturt had it handed to them when their stadium burnt down. and then when their court had to be replaced. sure.

and its not like forestville dont run a domestic competition too. do othe clubs?

"Enough of the BS about Forestville working hard,

They do work hard - they have a full time coaching director, plus Dave Laurie I still think does some work around the place. As for revenue, haven't they helped themselves there with their own domestic comp, one? That take a TON of work to initiate, to generate enough players and officials to be involved I'd have thought. Then re-invest any money from this in their junior program. Would not be easy at all, certainly not as easy as...say..whinging about zoning.

Sturt and Forestville also have the facilities that no other clubs have in 3 or 4 court facilities, a canteen and a bar revenue stream all handed to them on a plate.

Centrals? Southern? West's bar is top notch. Plus you bring Sturt into this? Glad you did - their stadium burnt down and they didn't have ANY stadium for a year or two (if not longer?), then the floor had to be ripped up at Pasadena so they had no home again for another year. But hey, they've had it handed to them on a plate....

every club from the smallest to the largest works hard

Some work harder to make things happen. Others whinge about the results achieved because of that hard work. Which type are you? Not a tough question.

If Forestville works so hard, has good coaches and others are lazy can you explain the following results for winter - pre finals

Grade Boys Girls

10/1 9 1
10/2 3 3
12/1 6 2
12/2 7 1
14/1 6 1
14/2 8 2
16/1 5 3
16/2 4 1
18/1 2 1
18/2 3 2

Either their left hand doesn't know what their right hand is doing or perhaps results are not just about how ggod city/south is or how good coaches and facilities are but perhaps how well a team performs is dictated by the talent you attract or poach or recruit.

I still contend that it is the calibre of player you attain and retain. This is why clubs need to work hardest on setting the environment to get the best possible players - but it appears that even F/ville can't do it from the boys side

What is BA doing to help develop young coaches to fill these gaps?

... and yet you won't hear anyone at Forestville sook about it and go the easy option ie want zoning.

This thread was about the number of players they have. YOU are the only person equating "hard work" with div 1 "success" - and as you apparently equate hard work/success with U10 + U12 positioning suggests your preference for a div 1 title over fundaments/skill development anyway so I'm hoping you are not involved at my club! They have their own domestic comp and a large number of players who want to play for them - something they should be congratulated for rather than sniped at because they actually are willing to put in the hard yards. These players are attracted by something, perhaps by a club that has made a commitment to junior development - instead of sitting back and demanding players be given to them.

But even their junior development model is failing on the boys side!

How so?

Because they didn't win U10 div 1?

#460,

Look at 12's 14's and 16's. With the exception of 16's which are just in the finals the others are in the bottom half of the competition. On average, if you are not better or no worse than other clubs you would expect to average around 5

Oh, so it's because the U12s aren't winning div 1 titles....

If you watch the U12 competition you'll find that Forestville are one of the few clubs that lay the foundations for FUTURE success - other clubs show short-sightedness with gimmicks that work in 12s that won't in future years (zones, traps). The fact that they show such vision over other clubs is a positive reflection on their junior development model in my opinion, not a blight.

Perhaps you should actually go watch the teams play and the systems they are putting in place instead of determining who "works hard" by looking at premiership ladders!!

#478,

I do get out and see many different clubs. In fact I am impressed with the small steps forward that clubs like Woodville and Southern seem to be making at the younger age groups. Now to address your points.

1. If this foundation is so good why the different achievements between the boys and girls programmes
2. Didn't think zones were allowed at that age group.
3. These foundations in U12s are for results in what age group - U18's??

The results in the boys programme is abysmal for a club of this size and standing. Obviously they get it right on the girls side - why not the boys??

skyhooked,

Hooray - you have finally acknowledged what i have been trying to say at # 428 above. Coaches and systems will bring the best out of individuals but you must have some talent with which to work. Turning the argument around I am annoyed that the big clubs continue to bag the smaller clubs due to an apparent lack of effort.

Sure more can always be done but you must have some talent coming through the doors with which to work. It is so frustrating to see better players with whom you can work move on.

I repeat - not having a go at the F/ville coaches just using that as an example that despite access to good coaching and facilities you need players.

I have watched forestville u12 boys and they have gone backwards. They struggle fundamentally and have no offensive structure at all. If you listen to this hype, about forestville being so great its generally a claim made by forestville people with out the results to back. If there is one thing they are good at its self proclaimed hype. There are no U12 boys teams playing full court zones, and if you think there are you do not have a clue about basketball.

I see this grade every week.

So said u12 boys program have now recruited a current div 1 coach from South to sort that program out.
Jeez South cant catch a break.Know for a fact South was wanting to reappoint him.

Forestville don't have any stars in their 16's 1 boys team.

Steve,

I hear what you say but:

Can you tell me what age group they are planning for - results up to and incl U16 are poor for a club of this standing and;

Why do the girls do better - do they press or is there another reason

Zoning does occur in U12. Sturt are always using a 2:2:1 zone whenever we play them. They are predictable.

Steve sounds like you are a part of the eagles self professed hype. If you are struggling to win games tell the parents that your losing formula puts you in great stead for the future and give your self a pat on the back. For your information Steve I was there a in 2001-2003 and the same crap was told back then. Good to see all the eagles age groups now in U20, U18, U16, U14 are beating the world and making all those awful zone playing U10, 12 teams look so average.
When I was in Melbourne in June, those Victorian teams play zone in their younger age groups. Good to see that has hampered their progress, imagine how strong they would really be!!!

But anyway Steve never let results get in the way of ego.

omg only 4 weeks - pass me the kleenex

???

what is different between the boys and girls programme then. Seems the girls can do both!

???, So all those battles with sturt for U 14 G supremecy were imagined?

???,
You fire up at ridiculous claims about your club on here, and rightly defend them, and in the same post throw uneducated insults at another?

Hypocrite much?

???

you might be right - the problem is that they have 8 years of age groups U10 - U16s where they havent improved the talent level to be at least average with others. Except for U16 1/2 where they have crept into the finals all their lower age group Div 1/2's languish outside of the finals. I presume the U 16's next season will be a power house as all the development of those in U 14's come to fruition.

the fluctuations seem to be at least an 8 year cycle??

and the point is pink??

You said it pink - shame!
Any club that has all SASI or State players in a team, shouldn't ethically accept more SASI players into that team from other clubs who have developed them.
You accepted two SASI players from north last season and one from wests for this coming season all into the same team so you can't expect to escape criticism.
As this thread touches on development its clear your club pays only lip service to it.
About time there was a restriction on how many SASI players each team is allowed.

Tissue 744?

now i understand the difference in the development programmes between girls and boys. Silly me. Girls recruiting oops i mean developing is much better than on the boys side.

#202578 Forestville actually don't have their home court for about 6 weeks and although it does not sound like that it's during the lead up and also during finals! You try having to have all your finals games as away games, especially when you've earned home finals.

Also You can't say that Coach's are be be all and end all of basketball it also falls to the players to practice away from club practise. Some clubs are lucky enough to have a lot of players who are that passionate about the game, and others don't have as many, thats just the way it goes.

for the record tho Zoning is stupid because at the moment many players move clubs to be able to play with their friends, or move because of club politics. I know politics everywhere are the same but from time to time a fresh start is needed.

769,

There is no notion of home courts in finals. Our team finished top and do not play one game at home - in fact the team they are likely to play in the GF will be played at their home stadium.

Zoning works in football - how many friends going to the same school actually play for different clubs. It happens and thems the breaks. Next you will tell me it is not fair someone being born on 31 December.

Finally i guess you are saying the F/ville girls or committed to improving outside club contact time while the boys aren't

pink,
My guesses would be, firstly they are coming because even ordinary players can climb the stairway to heaven with god being an ex forestville man and secondly promises of ABL minutes.
What do the players who have been and are going to be replaced think of your development of players?

Last time you said God was a Sturt man anon. You gotta get your story straight.....then I'll look for it in the Fiction section.

And if they were ordinary players, they wouldn't win right?

what is your plan B Pink - netball or footy?

like your boy's program you are a joke pink

Pink, they played NZ, a lot of U16's would beat them.

Pink, they played NZ, a lot of U16's would beat them.
Plan B is buy the right people drinks in your bar and
as for kids standing on their own two feet, cant think of one set of parents in your club that allows that.

Missed you at the local Mensa meeting Pink. Wonder why??

(Mod: Sniping at an U18 player?)