Yeh bring it on! hmmm 18 girls um Vic Metro? under 16 girls um Vic Metro. Under 18 boys WA metro Under 16 boys Vic Metro or WA. All i know is that there are a lot of injuries out there!

16 metro girls to get hammered; 16 Country girls to get hammered.

Now bring on the "your kid must have missed out on a spot" comments from the SASI police please.

18 womens will be interesting. All the AIS girls are going on a big tour to france where they will get seriously fatigued, and arrive back in AUS mere days before their first games at nationals. So the tournament is really going to be a big oppourtunity for some of the more obscure players from states to really step up and turn some heads. But unfortunately this probably favours VIC metro's depth more then anything.

U18 boys get a 2nd and 3rd at Classics and aren't going to make top 4? Plus they just beat the U20 State team tonight, all be it 7 out of the 10! Me thinks you might be eating your words!

(#190515)One thing I will not have to do is get back on here and eat humble pie; thats a given. 3 girls are very VERY unlucky to have missed out on that squad for the sake of 1st years. I hope you get back on here and tell me I was right!

(#190482) Girls on the Gems tour get back 2 days before they fly out to the Nationals, tough call.

Mr T,

I can almost see the tear from here. Maybe those first years are just better!

"3 girls are very VERY unlucky "

I wonder which one is Mr T's?

... look for the reserve with gold chains and a mohawk.

Im not for 1 moment saying that all 1st years dont deserve their spot; there are two that certainly do & one of them IMO was a walk up start; however if anyone with ANY coaching experience at district level can tell me that a couple of 1st years that have been picked are better value than what they are leaving behind, then I'll show them a pig with wings and a jet engine for an ass.

Your right, doesnt matter which girls perform well,(even the ones that do still miss out????????) you either FIT or you dont! (You gotta get your State coach to care about ya first ?

Gems kids your right are half injured already! Lots of sore knees/feet?

Mr T, What exactly are your qualifications regarding coaching at National Championships? Or your understanding of what the coach was asking of players? Of the bottom age players, 3 are from the State Champion team, who have only 2 top age state players. 1 from Forestville I imagine is somebody you consider being a walk up start. And the other IMHO is the 2nd best point guard, which allows other players to play their natural position.

Sorry Ned(#190638), I didnt know that attaching resumes while posting here was a prerequisite on this site.

Do you need to know my qualifications exactly or just a brief history?

If I told you a Corn Flakes packet had anything to do with it, would it help you?

"Of the bottom age players, 3 are from the State Champion team".... yeah thats a fact, but your point is?

I didnt think they could screw up 2 16 Nationals in a row, but I guess even I'm wrong sometimes.

Well my opinion is that you are nothing but an ignorant bitching parent, who is more interested in bagging people anonomously than having the courage to put your name to it.

And why wouldn't the best kids from the best team make the State team?

Or would you rather have the weaker players from the weaker teams make it, so your kid can have a go.

The only way to answer this is to ask the coach. You can all complain as much as you like, but would any of you do their job. Picking a team is as much about picking the best players as it is about team chemistry. To quote from another thread, Norwood v North I believe, "A champion team will always beat a team of champions".

And Mr T and Flanders, Mrs Lovejoy wants to ask, "Won't somebody please think of the children!!".

Flanders your bias towards the "state champ team" is quite obvious. Winning state champs is a fantastic feat and nothing can take away from how well that team performed that weekend; however if you are saying that on winning state champs alone, all the blues kids are deserving then I dissagree.

My club has 3 kids selected for the 16's nationals girls team; however I am not so bias as to hide the fact that I thought all three would make it; two selected from my club shocked me, as did two from your "state champ team". Yes your assumption about the 1st year I thought would be a walk up start is correct. I assumed a tall from the same team would have been an asset over one of your kids and I assumed a former player from your team would have made the team as well. Are you saying Im not allowed to have an opinion because kids are involved?

The 16's girls all 2nd year team experiment failed last year; so now they seem to have gone to far the other way. It's my opinion on a public forum, whats your beef?

Are you dirty because I dont agree with you? Is it because I didnt provide my full name, address & telephone number?

Last time I checked there was no kid named Flanders in that particular state team.

Mr T, my problem is that you are an ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post that attacks other peoples kids. And that you don't think that results in tournaments means anything shows how stupid you are, in my honest opinion. That you think it an experiment, rather than the best 10 kids, shows that you really have no idea and is a disredit to those players that have worked hard to improve and make the team, as well as those who did not make it.

PS All the blues kids didn't make it. And those that didn't shouldn't have IMHO. But I didn't bitch about it, I would rather reinforce that they need to improve if they were my kid, rather than namelessly blame others, which in my opinion is an act of cowardice.

Flanders you comment "you are an ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post" has been done time and time again, almost word for word when anyone EVER questions a state team or SASI process and most people are quite aware of this.

It is obvious where your associations lay.

Can I suggest that if you honestly expect anyone on here to put their name and contact details to their post, then start the ball rolling and tell us who you really are, or put up with it!. Are you an "ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post?"

I am allowed to comment on this post just like anyone else. Freedom of speach is a great thing, it just isnt on the agenda down your way, is it?

Flanders....Pfffhhht try anon or Little Man next time!

Mr T,

I don't think anyone denies your right to comment - but the issue that I have is that you insinuate, if not outrightly state, that 3 of the girls do not deserve their place in our state side. Not only that, but you pretty much state who they are. How do you think these girls, who have worked hard and sacrificed their weekends pretty much since early March, feel to be anonymously sniped at by someone who sadly is most likley an adult? Is that fair on them?

But hey, if you get your kicks taking pot-shots at 14 year old girls.....

It has become very apparent from my personal viewpoint that being involved in junior basketball would have to be one of the most cut-throat, dog eat dog sporting communities out there, I did think the soccer community had its problems but perhaps it is because of this website that true feelings are aired and shared.

What I have learnt in my few years of being involved in junior basketball is that the kids need to toughen up because there is always someone willing to take a swipe and say "that this one is not good enough" and "so and so doesnt bring the qualities to the team that is needed" it is very much a case of watch your back and open your ears, and the kids should be told that yes there are the knockers BUT you need to prove them wrong, so go out and do your best.

Oh my goodness(#190752) you have got to be kidding. Get off your very high horse will you.

I was shocked that 3 girls that have been picked made it and all of a sudden I "outrightly state, that 3 of the girls do not deserve their place in our state side" Im sure they are not sitting in their bedrooms wimpering about nast old Mr T.

Another "person" anonymously sniping me for accusing me of anonymously sniping others.

You dont see how stupid that is?

PS and the advice is the same for those that did and those that didnt make it........

Unbiased: Have you read the soccer forum? Take a read and tell me that soccer is any different.

http://www.footballnews.com.au/forum/

I think you will find it is just as bitchy if not worse. Try reading the topic on Basketball in trouble and read that only 'freaks' play the game!! Page 2 under NBL in trouble.

(#190779)Long overdue.

190779,

I am struggling to come up with who you may be referring to. If you could name this female coaching talent that may help. If you can then your post has some credibility.

By the way I don't disagree, I just want you to put names up, that's all.

Mr T,

As an amonomous sniper. Where you bitching about an anonomous sniper? Does that not stike you as hypocitical?

Mr T,

You are an adult taking a pot-shot at children. You demean junior players who love their sport and make many sacrifices for it by saying they do not deserve their oppurtunity to represent our state. You suggest they were not selected on the merit of their performance.

I think that people who anonymously attack children are weak.

And you haven't handled criticism or even a query on your credentials boy others well here, what makes you think young children will handle criticism better than you have?

But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

#190830 Please, please, please do not go into the under 14 south girls team from last season. That coach was an absolute ...@@XXXXXX... having come from there! ONly his "favourites" were any good and stuff everybody else!! Yes I am a whinging parent!! Yes my daughter was one of his missions to destroy. So what it's time people understood that SOME coaches can do more harm than good and some clubs need to stand up to these coaches so they don't destroy the up and coming young kids hearts! Please have a go at me if you must but this is a forum and I am allowed to have my say!!! I am an angry parent that a club allowed this to happen. I guess what make it worse is that we came from a so called top club that was just as bad and still allows the same people to do the same things. I am quite aware that this post will send some people into a tizz and have a go at me but as I say again this is a form and I am allowed to have my opnion!!

exsouth,

Freedom of speech is indeed your right and you are entitled to your opinion.

However with rights come responsibilities.

I fear that you don't actually know what these responsibilities are, or else you wouldn't have said what you have just said about someone who is a volunteer and is there for your daughter, performing a service that I am guessing you would not be willing or able to do.

A little more respect is in order regardless of what you think of this person.

Now can we actually discuss the topic which was the Under 16 and 18 Nationals coming up.

Ruffle a few feathers, and look at all the sasi Knuckleheads come out of the woodwork. Mr T, you dont dare say a word against this organisation or you cop it. Ooooh you said this ooh he said that. Pathetic.

Flanders = little man, pretty obvious.
pity the fool = hyserical parent.
name and address please = some one in the current scheme of things that wants to keep the boys club ticking.
Yell = I dont give a damn what you think, go ya hardest.

Dear More Respect Please

I have indeed been a volunteer in the basketball community both school (primary and high) and club. Both as manager and as a coach. "A little more respect" is all I asked for regarding my daughter and son in these clubs. I took over a young U14 boys team as no-one else would take it on. Even had to find my own training venue. I quite happily did this and enjoyed it! So please do not put me in the category as a parent who says all and does nothing.

It was thanks to the attitude of this particular coach (not all) that my daughter has lost total confidence and is now playing netball quite happily as she is not treated badly. I myself have played first class sport in basketball, hockey, swimming and lacrosse and no quite well what can happen if the younger community are directed in the right way. So please do not talk to me about responsibilities. If you would have been at the classics last year with the South group to hear the coach say that it was his plan to get every girl in that team to cry what would you think? That was in front of most parent as well not just me! The club was told of this and did nothing.
I am quite happy to take personal emails if you wish to talk to me about this.

Grod, I find it amazing that you beleive that people not wanting kid's details plastered all over a public forum by some disgruntled parent are ALL from SASI. I am not from SASI and I am disgusted from the behaviour of "Mr T" as any descent person would be. Hell if you want have a crack coaches etc. go for it IMO but don't have a crack at their selections because this only reflects on the players (young kids) they selected. Bit harsh Mr T.

one thing for sure is that the 16 boys metro will struggle if what I saw at a pasadena last night between 2 so called top teams is any indication - talk about turnover city. The best kid on the court was one that was cut from sasi. Liam is in for a long week. One thing for sure is that norwood guy cannot coach. If only the sturt coach had that team. what a difference.

One minute you knock both the teams then you state "if only the sturt coach had that team. what a difference" well his team is not that good either according to your post, so how can you turn around and make an observation that the Sturt coach would do better with the Norwood boys. So my question to you is this Better How??

190908 - what are you talking about Lewis?? Sturt, Norwood U16 boys, Girls State - please explain - your post has me utterly confused about what you are responding to

Liam can't coach either so those boys should be right at home.

From the sounds of #190908's post, the SA metro 18 girls coaches had better start tapering off their players commitments. First game of nationals is in what, 2 weeks? Otherwise get ready to see ugly scorelines...

Considering the Sturt team finished 4th at the classics and twice nearly beat a team with 5 NSWM players, maybe we aren't that far of the pace.

I only wish that all State teams could have coaches with such good ABA results as Flynn and Weeks, for all those doubters. If they are good enough for Coach of the year, and NBL, who can we possible get better. Other than somebody who will pick your kid because they are your mate.

Carlo can't coach. Simple . That norwood team talent wise is 20 points better than every one here. Most people acknowledge that. Over the past 4 years the teams he has had and sure won summer this year - wwoppee do and granted deserved to win state champs. Outside of that they play with no structure and vic teams beat them 9 out of 10 times. They play run and gun basketball like they did last night except this time sturt had a kid that pumped em from the 3 point line and he alone upset them. All the state kids playing in that game except 13 for sturt were under par to say the least. They have been for weeks. Some of them were terrible at the classics, simple. Time will tell.

The standard of 16 boys in this state has dropped markedly - results testify to that. This group of kids is pretty average.

What results are they? 4th at the classics isn't bad, considering the 3rd team had 5 State NSWM players!

What are the facts anon?

I have followed this thread from Friday onwards and at the risk of being attacked from some quarters, I would like to make a few points.

1st I don't see anyone on here putting up their name, address & phone numbers combined with their credentials as a matter of course when they post, so I find it strange it is being asked for by some and funny that the ones asking for credentials are not supplying their own. We are all, despite our aliases anonymous posters. I might add that a certain poster on here that has incurred the wrath of some may have already answered the credential question by answering "Corn Flakes packet" I would have thought this would have pointed out to a few that this person does not know what he or she is on about.

2nd I happen to agree with what would seem a minority view to a point regarding selections of the 16 girls metro team; however I think "shocked" is to much of a strong word. I am surprised at the selection of two players and equally surprised at the omission of two. The fact that I am surprised or others are shocked, mystified, stupefied or what ever in NO way detracts from the players who have been picked as they have the full backing of state selectors and SASI. It is a very small group; most of the group IMHO were no brainers leaving the ones that surprised some pretty easy to identify. I am certainly not "attacking" kids I am merly having an opinion. I think some should clam down a little! My credentials are only that I have watched the sport for the past 30+ years. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about either?

3rd the original poster of this thread said "anyone care to offer their thoughts on the 18's and 16's nationals in a few weeks time ?" and we now have debate on the issue. The debate was always going to come down to selections and forum rules regarding juniors must be adhered to. As long as these rules are met then I personally don't see the problem with the debate. If you have a problem then ask the moderator to lock the thread, or erase the offending post. Might I suggest that maybe in the future the mere original intention to have others offer "thoughts" on the upcoming nationals be banned in the future.

On second thoughts, if we are going to ban the "thoughts" on upcoming events we might as well scrap the whole forum.

The fact that state teams have been picked should encourage debate, no matter if the participants are 14 or 40. The opinions of others should in no way detract from the fact that they have been selected the best team in the state.

Go give them hell girls, good luck.

Look at all the experts on hoops SA

Who cares about the girls anyway. All the bitching etc is hormonal and inbuilt is it not. Good luck to em anyway. Just don't bitch on an open forum. They'll finish playing in 2-3 years and then go off and have babies and make their men satisfied won't they. Isn't that the purpose of a females life !!! They could save the cost of running the carnivals and give it to the boys program.

My sister is my mum

Is she bold and beautiful?

wot chance are the metro U16 boys? How do they compaire to last few years?

play vic metro first up, are they a chance?

how strong is the country group this year?

Victorian you are a clown and please dont debase the Big V with your bizarre interpretation of what women do or want as you clearly have NO idea!

And why not get back to the debate perhaps you may look at the draws and see what games the SA teams may or may not win and that may give you an understanding of how you will do for the tournament. If you knew what was happening with teams in other states that would assist. Do any of you actually connect with coaches/parents/kids from other states?

There has been little discussion of how you will do and plenty on what you wont do due to poor selection process. The good news is, is that this same debate is conducted in every state by parents who's kids were not selected, so don't feel alone!

The nationals website has the dates & locations listed already for 2009.

The u-18 nationals are being held in Adelaide, but have they got the month wrong on the website. They've it listed as April, i would've thought July?

Can anyone clarify, Hoop Addict - you still trawling around?

Nope its in April next year. Some kids will only get a solid 16 weeks off from state. I wonder if any thought is being given around the issues surrounding this???

A good topic would be what will clubs/SASI/State coaches do with the kids likely to play in nationals this yr AND next. For mine I think some guidance should be developed coordinated with clubs and SASI to suggest to parents that the kids get a solid 4-6 week break from basketball and coordinate this with SASI/club programs to ensure that the kids have no compulsory basketball over that time.

I am all for the current workload of elite players but everyone needs a good break at some stage over the 12 month cycle.

Yep, April... due to the U17 World Champs in July I *think*.

Amanda Jones you foolish lady. There is always one that takes the bait. Yes My kid is not going to nationals but only because he chose to do another sport instead. I think I am probably more aware of other states talents than you are - all be it not on the girls side of things because they are irrelavent and of no interest to most who follow the boys side of the sport. We hope they win the odd game and do well but please no infighting or bickering on this site please. It is good to see that the weaker sex read this site and have an opinion.

Chivalry is alive and well on this thred, thankyou Victorian.
Please tell me your not as much of a pig as you sound like on these boards? At the risk of sparking some stupid debate about men vs. women, I think that I should remind you and all other men who share your opinion that the womens rights movement happened around 40 years ago now. Referring to women as the 'weaker sex' is obviously some vain attempt at compensating for something that you obviously come up short in...

Well done victorian - sucking em in again. You should see his wife, absolute stunner and a nicer guy you could not wish to meet. He knows his stuff too.

Is his name Ridge Forrester?

I am a regular on hoops this legend is an imposter, the true legend is known who works for a legal firm. Not interested in defamation, or insulting women,back to the basketball. Watched under 16's boys and girls Metro vs SAC. The girls game was pretty close SAC missed their point guard alot of turnovers but good quality game.The Metro bigs were good and played too good. Not defending SAC boys looked flat due to injury and sickness basically played with 7 and trained two hours earlier that day. No excuses well done metro boys.

Is he Brooke Logan's brother the laywer?

In SA I think the stronger sex is female basketballers. Just looking at the numbers over the past few years of those invited to AIS.

Victorian still laughing and good to know that you know more then me about everything apart from girls! What a surprise who would have thunk it? Shame about your son not making it glad he had a fall back sport!

#178 - your girl wasn't good enough for a spot then huh?

Just because players go to college, doesn't mean that they should go to the AIS.

The AIS is about building world groups and producing National players.

Victorian really loves amanda jones who is the mother of his labrador called Hoover. Amanda I believe has sucked up to nearly every coach her kid has been involved with.

Good to see a thread that started as discussion on how teams would go at a championship degenerates with peoples insecurities.No wonder bball in this state is where it is.

191264 - apples and oranges.

The two metro girls mentioned are in a different 'class' (age group) to the girl mentioned. You'd be best off putting a case forward comparing those two girls to other's in their year that got a ticket to the 'tute.

Anon,

But Romeo and Mansfield are not eligible for the same Junior Worlds as Ireland. They had to compete agaisnt Kennedy, Ebzery, Gaze and Hunt.

I love it when people want to talk about things that they don't understand.

Ignorance is truly bliss.

Yep, may come back to bite em! Current gems team not much strength. Tippett however in class of her own.
Noone close to her!

US Colleges having a field day.........if our 1 in command could just take off the blinkers and encourage the rest would be great.

Pussy Lover - you don't know me (thank god) so what are you on about - are you now subject to the same insecurities that you accuse everyone else of? Not sure I said anything to warrant your tirade as all I tried to do was introduce the topic again. Any who thanks for the effort!

I agree #403, with the exeption of the tallest player on the team who clearly has the potential to become seriously good, I dont think that any of the other members look like they are going to make a huge impact on Australia's national team in years to come. But then again, thats what they are at the AIS to do, become higher calibre players... i suppose we will have to wait and see if any of them are real standouts at the nationals, i doubt there will be.

Ask some current AIS kids. Not happy, No nurturing.....bitching....crap schooling,,,,,I'd think twice about what your kids heading too!!

I assume you are referring to the women only then? I dont know about the womens program but the men's is renowned internationally, more specifically Marty Clarke.

Totally agree, the next couple years, under the current reign, will show if Aussie girls still a benchmark...........my thoughts........by all means prove me wrong... The predessors have done a great job, time will tell how honest selections have been since.

601,

Basketball is not athletics where performances can be measured exactly in times or distances. By its very nature as a team sport which has one of the most open-ended physical, mental and technical requirements (research this if you don't know what I mean), it is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

Basketball selections are therefore very subjective as that's the only way they can be. There is no mystique or secrecy as you put it, just experienced and qualified people at the level you are talking about, making selections based upon a large number of factors.

Just because you don't understand those decisions, doesn't mean they are wrong. Kinsman (and other selectors) pick the kids that they think are best able to develop into international players. They do this after seeing them at multiple tournaments and national camps over a number of years. If he gets it wrong his job is on the line. He is not going to risk that to choose "buddies". And its not just him, there are a whole range of people who have input into these selections. I am sure that they would love to be able to make everyone shoot 100 foul shots and take the 12 highest scores. It would be much easier, and it would be flat out wrong as well.

What you suggest is not feasible due to the very nature of the sport.

There is a pathway to represent your country. Go to www.basketballsa.com.au and look under High Performance. It's all there. If you still don't understand talk to the people involved. They know what they are doing, hence Australia's high ranking in the 2nd largest sport on the planet.

Log Lady - more info to help me with my basketball education - thank you!

It's my pleasure. My log sees all!

Log lady, where is Powdered Toast Man and Muddy Mudskipper?

I'm not from SA but all the arguments are familiar to me. To take these statements at face value, I should pull my 14 year old from the State team and not bother to go to Perth because clearly I don't know these mystical people who make the decisions, so she'll be wasting her time having any basketball ambitions.

But having been involved in the sport for many years, and more recently as a coach involved with State teams, I can say some of your cynicism needs to be checked. My daughter missed the State team last year and I didn't agree with her non-selection (being as objective as I could). Other girls missed out this year and I didn't agree with their omission either. Every year, the coach in question gets second-guessed by people with very little insight into the process or his game-plan. Yet at the end of the day, he takes the team away, he puts together the game plan and he wears the bouquets or brickbats based on the team's results. This is the lot of the coach.

When I pick a team, I look at what a player can do for that team - not what they can do, how many points they score or any other statistically objective measure. Were I to rely on objective measures only I would die watching the selection trials as everybody tried to 'get theirs' and then spend the season managing egos and playing time to try and keep everybody happy.

The selection process for Institute players is exhaustive (my daughter is on the very bottom rungs of this ladder in the ITC program). They are seen at camps, they are seen at tournaments, they are seen locally, in individual workouts and ultimately at national development camps and on national teams - all before being picked for the Institute. Its not based on one tournament. Its not based on absolute ability. There are fantastic U16 players who will never play at an elite level as adults - that is the nature of development. The AIS makes mistakes, nearly every team has players they regret picking. It happens. Probably the best predictor of a junior's success is not what teams they get picked for, but how they respond when they miss out on a team.

As the comp starts today all I can say is go Vic Metro - we are looking for a gold rush in Ballarat! Oh no not again! Whoohooo

Read lots of entries over recent weeks re selection of teams for these comps.I did not realise there were so many intelligent basketball supporters with much to offer B/B in this state. Let us support the kids. Good luck to the girls and boys flying to Perth today. It will be interesting to see how the coaches manage the injured players over the week and how much court time the first year girls get. Should the team perform poorly, one would hope the coach does the honorable thing and "falls on his sword". How a coach can be appointed when he doesn't even coach that age group is an interesting appontment. Do the state proud girls. Mr.E.

I'll go one step further. I will not make any further postings on this site and congratulate them on their success.