Not even close! Yes, a great player, but no where near Jordan.

When did they blow that lead? if it is today's game, thanks so much for the spoiler la la boy...

Big thread on this last year

http://linky.com.au/efm4h

Well even a stronger case...if Kobe don't get us to win the champsionship this year (which is doable since the pieces are similar to that back in Bulls), that just shows he can't win without a dominant big man! if he wins later down the track when Bynum's back.

Wouldn't go as far placing him 3rd or 4th of all time Lakers though at least 3rd or 4th in league history my view, he just a hard guy to market and for people to like and recognise how good he actually is...

Not in any particular order:- Kareem, Magic, Elgin Baylor, Wilt, Jerry West, Kobe...
Hard to compare eras & know where he sits in that list of Laker greats. One of the Laker greats yes, but still not close to Jordan... the best ever by a country mile IMO.

you got to remember though...Magic, West weren't as dominant...Wilt wouldn't go as far either as he was just too big (literally) for his time. My top 3 would be...MJ, Oscar, Kobe...Maybe Lebron will one day take over Kobe on that spot if he works on his shots enough...

Lakers have a better team now than Jordan did in 98. I mean luc longley come on

Can I suggest that people stop complaining about spoilers. If you don't want to know the result of an NBA game don't read NBA threads. The thread title clearly suggests either one of two things:

1. Kobe is better than MJ because of an awesome performance in today's game.

2. Kobe is worse then MJ because of an ordinary performance in today's game.

DB5 - why are you reading a thread about Kobe if you didn't want to know the result of today's game???

btw kad - I love looking at all of the faces in the crowd on that MJ photo - most of them know their fate already!

Better than Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Longley (in terms of usefulness in triangle) and Harper?

FWIW, no chance. MJ still much better than Kobe.

Well being that I had intentionally dodged anything with Lakers v Celtics, or game 4 or spoiler in the title, I thought this may be an observation between the 2 that had nothing to do with today's game...

I forgot Rodman :(

That's an awesome pic of MJ. Look at the Utah crowd's faces - they already know what's about to happen.

No way does Kobe have a better team than Jordan did..

Kobe has played at MJ's level during patches of the last 2-3 seasons but...MJ did it from day 1, till the end (of Chicago days)

how can you say wilt was too big for his time? he played against the greatest defender ever in russell, and still managed to get his 50 points on him, you can never say MJ is the greatest cause we never saw him play one on one with any of these guys... closest we had to finding out was when Magic and MJ was supposed to have a one on one game but Nike pulled the pin on it because they didn't want to lose all their money if MJ lost the game

lets not forget Wilt was also asked to keep playing when he was 50 odd (not long before he passed) but declined the invitations he got... don't think Jordan will ever get asked to come back at 50. do you?

This kind of comparison is never going to end.

However, one point that Kobe's team is better than the Bulls... Serious?

I'd take Pippen, Rodman, Harper, Kukoc over Odom, Fisher, Ramanovic and Walton/Vujacic.

Gasol is obviously a gun and dominates Longley, but as we know, takes more than 2 players to win a championship. Odom et al just aren't consistent enough IMO.

Bulls Lakers
Longley Gasol (Would be Bynam)
Rodman Radmanovic
Pippen Odom
Jordan Bryant
Harper Fisher

Kukoc Walton
Kerr Vucajic
Wennington Turiaf
Brown Farmar


I think fairly even supporting casts.
For this series:
Gasol over Longley hands down.
Rodman over Radmanovic for his defense
Pippen over Odom
I would call Fisher V Harper a draw
Kukoc over Walton
Vucajic over Kerr
Turiaf over Wennington
Farmar over Brown.

I know Im forgetting somebody but who?

Anyway by my calculations Lakers up 4-3 on the supporting cast. Throw in Bynam and the bench gets deeper.

The Lakers starters are probably not up to the Bulls level apart from Gasol, but I think the Lakers bench would be an upgrade on the Bulls, all IMO of course. Thats only on what I have listed, but Im sure Im missing some Bulls benchies.....

Thoughts?

I'd still say Jordan is a better player than Kobe. But a couple of factors in Kobe's favour:
- his team this year is nowhere near as good as that of most of Jordan's title winning teams.
- the rules now allow a certain amount of zoning, which makes it much harder for gun players to iso late in games and take a defender one on one.

LA Boy I have to disagree with your comment that Magic wasn't as dominant as Kobe. Check it out:

Career
FG% .520 REB 7.2 AST 11.2 STL 1.9 PPG 19.5

MVP and Finals MVP 3 times each.

As a ROOKIE he filled in at centre for the injured Abdul-Jabbar in game 6 of the NBA FINALS and led the Lakers to the championship with 42 points, 15 boards, seven assists and three steals. Johnson became the first rookie ever to win the Finals MVP Award.

There were plenty more games like this, the guy was the definition of dominant!

The Bulls wins in matchups are FAR bigger than the Lakers wins in matchups...The Lakers wins you had are like 50/50's that could go either way, but Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman make them SO much better

And why are people talking up Gasol so much, have you not been watching this series, he has been an absolute joke. At least with Lonely you KNOW he isn't going to give you anything.

Kobes a more dominant scorer though. and one of the greatest closers in NBA history

Hustle, thanks for the comparisons. I don't see it as so much as a player by player thing though. The old Bulls teams played SHUT DOWN DEFENCE which meant that it was difficult to get a big lead on them and if you got down to them by, say 21 after 1 quarter, you ain't coming back!

They were masters at just keeping the game close until the final few minutes, even when playing badly, and then handing it over to MJ to close out the game.

Gasol was international mvp; that's why he's rated high which he deserves...When you talk about domination, you're talking about other teams who needs to double you and put all focus on you...Magic weren't quite that since there's Kareem, just look Kobe's time with Shaq, Shaq drew more attention, but Kobe's now reached that level in terms of attention...Don't get me wrong though Magic definitely a superstar legend that dominate, but just wouldn't say same level.

So jordan had a great team then, is that why he won so much. So maybe Kobe IS better

hahaha that is a pretty good call i got to say! haven't heard that one before!!!

la boy is wrong.

to say that magic was not as dominant as kobe is wrong. magic had the ball in his hands most of the game and literally controlled the team and therefore the game. he controlled the tempo, intensity and was basically the man whom D focused on. his finals numbers are phenomenal, however because he didnt take every shot of the 4th, la boy doesnt feel he's as dominant.

wilt chamberlain was 7 ft 1 and the average height of centers during his day was 6 ft 10,( not to mention in the days before player heights where inflated for marketing purposes) including some of the greatest centers to enter the paint (bill russell 6'9 - nate thurmond - 6'11 - walt bellamy 7,0 - willis reid 6'10 - lew alcindor 7,2 - elvin hayes 6'11 - wes unseld 6'7) just to mention a few

btw last post was me, and im a big kobe and la fan. kobe should be mentioned in the same breath as magic, jordan, oscar

Jordan.....daylight.....Kobe

my ex-coach played against magic in college and said kobe more acrobatic, quicker and can create better looks and thus close things better (but obviously not quiet same level mj was); while magic got the height and unique handle (he was matched up against him since magic played center in college) and said he started backing him down from half way line! but anyway, it's cos of his height that gave him such a good court vision for the assists but athleticism wise kobe's got it.

And you're definitely right about height! my ex-coach's only about 6'7 and played center back then!

Notice the overly high number of Red-head women in the crowd of the Jordan shot...

Weird huh?

I spotted 16. May be colour quality though...

In ten years time will we be comparing players with Kobe or Jordan?

I say Jordan because he was the greatest before Kobe came along and its always tough beating the original.

It's just like comparing Shaq with Chamberlain or Russell. Shaq will be up there with the greats but Wilt and Bill established the legacy for big men.

Kobe won't even be the best player in this generation, Duncan or Lebron will be

This is a comparison people are always going to make, because these two players play the same position, {2} in the same offence { triple post offence } under the same coach. { Jackson }

They should be taking the same shots in the same places on the floor down the stretch. And MJ always got em and made em.

MJ always got em and made em?

Maybe thats because you dont see youtube clips of him missing game winners...?

Jordan was 1-11 in the playoffs without pippen and never had a winning season without him.

I dont think Jordan wouldve won any championships if his 3rd best player was injured for the season either.

LA Boy, I recommend you go back and watch all the Finals series Magic played in. I think you might change your opinion of Magic then.