Sorry just quickley, other unlucky ones were Quigley(north). A good leader but just does not do enough.
Frost(south) also unlucky.

Rees(woodville) didn't make it cos he has had it. Will be very surprised if he plays....same with Kosmider(south).

Paget(Sturt) still needs improving.

Pero needs to play as does Dusty if they want to get on the list.

Leith Burdon..just missed...already so many good shooters!

Great write up and a good read. Sure to open a can of worms.

Aside from the typical debates as to who should be above who etc the only criticism/question that I have is that is it based on current form/age etc or their career? There seems to be a few inconsistencies in that area (eg. Wilson gets credit for his previous achievements, 2 championships etc, but someone like Mann doesn't? - I'm pretty sure he would be the only one on that list to have won a world championship!).

I look forward to reading this thread over the next week or so - should be good.

It would also be interesting to do an ESPN style "Top Trade Value" players where the older guys would move down the list and some of the younger guys move up because of potential and playing years left etc.

I see your point Great Debate. But the differnce between Wilson and Mann is that Wilson is still in his prime...Mann is not. If you can tick both boxes in current and past form(achaivments) then you are going to be higher on the list. Mann is a more of a role player these days, and really his past acheivments and his experience probably got him on the list.

If you give each player a ranking based on the positions in this list (ie Erik gets 50, Cam 49, Todd 48 etc) the team totals look like this. How close will this be to the final ladder I wonder?

Forestville (229)
North (211)
Norwood (194)
West (125)
Centrals (107)
South (105)
Woodville (84)
Sturt (82)
Southern (76)
Eastern (62)

Once again there is no disputing the best three teams. West are higher because their injured players are included (take out Molitor, Mann and Truslove and they drop to 58!). The rest are all close which is how the season is shaping up - anyone could get those last two playoff spots.

IMO Centrals are too high but mainly due to Puddifoot being at No. 6 - at least 20 spots too high IMO.

"Interesting list but Dodman @ no# 9 ...ok the guy is in the sixers..only because he's tall not because he can play actually play the game....."

Nah your right mate, only averages about 16 and 10 per game, bloody terrible!

I miss the old HSA ratings. It would be good to compare the list to the current HSA ratings.

Just on ratings - does anyone know how the Index of Success thingy is calculated on Sporting Pulse?

Well done I Love ABL! Can't say I agree with some of your selections, but then no-one is going to agree with every single one. Must have taken you a while!

Stats room I do agree that Centrals are a little high, especially when you see how low Sturt are, but then Centrals did beat Sturt. I would say sneak Sturt in ahead of Centrals and it's pretty close to what I would tip.

Two teams are maybe two high and that being the lions due to Puddifoot(6) and the eagles due to Arnold(8). I just like the way these two play. Have both had success in the past and are still playing well now. Both are experienced and very hard workers and are both inside/outside players and both have won defensive player of the year before.

Interesting tho statman. I didn't think about the team breakdowns. Pretty close I guess. Sturt are unlucky not to have more players in the 50. Vaughn, Sheppard, Paget and Hakendorf are all good players that missed out.

Did a similar thing but took into account where they played the majority of their juniors.

North 218
Norwood 173
Sturt 164
Woodville 129
Southern 86
Forestville 75
West 72
South 49
centrals 45
Eastern 32

Didn't count guys who came in after or in Under 20's.

Wow, congrats you just listed the starting 5's for most teams in the league.

Why not do a top 50 of all time you clown instead of listing dudes who 10 years ago would not of even made it into a team in the CABL

#672, Lampshire has 7 and 4 off the bench last year. Probably a bit lucky but has a great summer season this year which got him over the line. I expect good numbers from him this year.

Sup....take a chill pill mate, either that or go cry to your mummy mate cos we don't wanna hear it.

I remember playing an under 18's game with Cam Wilson vs Centrals. Think it was the first and only time he wore the long socks. They laughed and gave him shit, and he dropped 51 on em. Memories :)

OK i will start the 50 all time greatest abl/state league list in no particular order

1.Willie Jennette
2.Ron Nunnelly
3.Mark Davis
4.Al Green
5.Darryl Pearce
6.Scott Ninnis
7. Dave S m y t h
8. Jason Dix
9. Ben Osborne
10. Tyrone Lee
11. Kelvin Henderson
12. Dean Kinsman
13. Michael Ahmatt
14. Andy Simons
15. Mike Mckay
16. Butch Hays
17. Terry Hamilton
18. Brett Wheeler
19. Jason Wheeler
20. Mark Dalton
21. Werne Linde
22. Peter Ali
23. Ray Wood
24. Greg Olbrich
25. Jacob Holmes
26. Darren Ng
27. Oscar Forman
28. Chris Stirling
29. Mark Sykes
30. Mike Dancis
31. Brian Hennig
32. my brain hurts from trying to remember too many names...any one else want to add some???

Nice effort must say.

Just looking over the list, 10 of these guys would be lucky to make the starting 5 of any of the teams going around the SEABL or Big V divisions!

On another note, I'd love to see a list fot he proposed top 50 of the past 20 years. I reckon Sup is right with one thing...10 years ago there were some very good players going around.

What a revelation DandyBoi. Of course some of them wouldn't make the starting fives of SEABL or Big V teams given that at least 7 of them don't even make the starting five of their CABL side.

(West and Forestville have 7 players in the list and North and Norwood both have 6)

I think a very large portion of these players would be good enough in their current form to play in 1998(10 years ago). Although the league is smaller than 10 years ago and there are less imports, the local talent is quicker, more athletic and are alot fitter than that of the 80's and 90's counterparts.
I think it is ridiculous to compare generations anyway...the game changes as do the players...impossible to compare in any sport.

I also think that alot of them would easily get a game in the seabl and especially the big V.

Anyway, this thread is about our current players in the CABL...not about past has-beens or Victoria!

Note - I forgot to add Southern as the other team that has 6 in the list.

I would say by years end Gower would be challenging for a top 20 spot. The guy is a gun

Sorry Sturt should be 96 and Southern 62.

Third time lucky:
Please ignore my lost post and change the minimum number of players in the list that don't start to 6. I think you get the point.

Newsflash right back at you anon - Big V like the SEABL is also semi-professional! If you don't know what you are talking about, do some research before you decide to click on 'Post'!!!

OK to compare leagues between todays talent and "back in the day" i will give you an expample.

My first defensive asignment in ABL,and this will date me, was to guard Rob Rose at the height of his career. This guy was killing people in the NBL and i had to try and guard him in my first game?

So whilst people may say the players now are quicker and stronger i seriously doubt that they are better.

Purely becasue the general talent playing in the league is not as experienced or as good.

If you where a small minute ABL player as i was then you had to go every game against NBL players current and former. And not just bench NBL players these guys also played for the Boomers and at the Olympics.

Local talent was so good that alot of guys (Breeding, Simons, Osborne eg) had to go interstate to make NBL rosters as the Sixers were too deep in almost every position.

These guys got good beacuse every week they where being tested and learning from some of the best in the country. It was the ultimate sink or swim environment.

In my first game in 1996 I had to guard Scott Whitmore and boy I took him to school. Down at Athol Park they still talk about it.

Zane Reeves unlucky? Surely the MIP Academy player has to be ahead of Crothers, Goodenough and Mac-Taylor?

Sorry but to have 3 Eastern players in the Top 33 is probably not right, considering their 2-16 last season, and 0-5 this year.

That was your first mistake Fitz, trying to playing defence...

Second mistake was matching up with Rose.

and my first problem is simple english.... I'd kill for an edit button...

Shin splints, Zane is improving but needs another year to get ahead of those guys IMO. There wouldn't be one player on the eagles that would prefer Zane to DMT. Zane has no three point range for a bloke who is moderate in size, and needs to work on his defence.

Also, I hear ya about the eastern one, but they are also their only 3 on the list. And surely if Watson was fit they would have won more games. Like I said, he is really a 15-20 player, but i have him at 33 due to injury and lack of playing last year. Modra may be a bit lucky as this is really his only good year. Breheney deserves his spot I think, considering he is still behind 4 other centres.

I remember having to guard Brett Maher, Rob Rose (would shoot NBA 3's over a double team), Ron Nunnelly (hope I spelt it right, that guy was a scoring machine), Todd Grocke (and that one), Ben Osborne, Grant Yates, Wayne Chapman & most of the NCT team of that day, if i got real lucky, Billy Fikes.

I know it's a different era and all, but I would have those guys on my team over a lot of current players. They were all skilled yet physical players which (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see much of these days.

I still have nightmares about playing split line help at training one night and seeing the ball get kicked cross court and as I head snapped, took an unintentional charge from Billy Fykes as he dunked right on my head.

Damn that guy could jump!

Also remember my first ever seniors game having to guard Al Green and all I kept thinking was "he's a left hander, force him right, force him right", like I could force Al to do anything!

phizzer, I remember guarding Fikes out at Golden Grove of all places, I got stuck behind him in the low post, he caught it, spun baseline with 1 dribble and dunked it on the other side of the rim. Lucky my hands were up otherwise I would've had a ball imprint on my face, he dunked it that hard.

I'm not so sure about all this talk about players being so much better 10 years ago than they are today. tiger coach, sure that tiger team was mega talented, but it was also top of the standings most years.

Compare the top teams of those years to last years top 3, being:

Matthews, Cooper, Krause, Thompson etc for Norwood

Oakley, Dix, Sullivan, Sutton, Campbell etc for Forestville, and of course

Rychart, Hambour, Eze etc for North. I'm sure I've missed some guys on those teams that I shouldn't have

And 2 years ago was it that Sturt had Forman, Bauer, Gower, Williams, D Ng etc all of the above teams had some real solid benches too

I think the top teams of today would easily compete with the top teams of 10 years ago and perhaps beat them.. just my opinion of course

Zane Reeves ahead of Crothers. You have to be kidding right? Have you seen Reeves play vs Crothers. He doesn't even want to go within 30 feet of Crusher let alone contest a rebound with him. When he grows some balls I'd consider him for the list.

Puddifoot has won Defensive Player of the year 2 times and deserves to be in the top 5 in my opinion. The guy can guard almost every position and rebounds like a machine, not to mention his work ethic. have played with him and aginst him and would always have him on my team.

lockstock, if you look at those names i don't disagree, but those teams are also top of the standings. I guess we can go round and round and round and round, take the best players from any era and they will be comparable to any other era, it is just an opinion. My thoughts, rightly or wrongly, are that the overall league was stronger back in the day.

It's not quite that the standard of player generally is not as good, just that the competition attracted a higher standard then (better pay, I'm assuming, or at least better pay relative to NBL jobs).

The mid to late 80's and early to mid 90's were a golden era for SA state league basketball .

The standard now is a fair whack below that . The depth has dwindled considerably over the last 10 years for many reasons but hey it is still the top level in the state and the players that play it should take pride in that .

Better than the average armchair slob .

Thats right Isacc. But I certainly think that the local talent coming out now is as good if not better than 10 years ago. Unfortunately we don't have the imports and interstate players for our local guys to play against due to money, but I don't think that has any real effect on how good our local guys are.

And none of those past players would make my list because none of those guys are still playing! If I was trying to compare generations I would have made multliple lists of all the different era's and then compared them. This is about our current players, and which ones are great players, not a chance for past players to talk about how good they were, or why they coudn't make it 10 years ago cos the comp was better, when actually maybe they just were not that good!

Playing on a weaker team.

I can't wait for the West V Centrals game soon when Zane says to Crusher "Hey, who's the clown that says you should be rated above me on the top 50 CABL players? When did your mum vote?"

Good on ya mate for doing the list and its great that you care enough to do it and who ever did this there would be debate but some of your picks are really out of whacj and you can tell you have not spent near enough time around these guys to really judge.Maybe you just go off ststa alone or something. Some noteable mistakes are

PUDS should not be that high
Peter Hoban should be way higher and is the most NBL ready out of any non NBL player on the list
I dont think anyone has seen enough of reardon to put him that high in this league yet
Cam Wilson is very good but not number 2, he is not netter than Bard Gerlach or Matt Sutton, on his team he stands out more becasue no one around him but he is not a better player than those 2 for instance
Jye Watson and Phil Modra are terrible and should not even be mentioned
The canadian kid from South has not played enough to be considered in that spot which also makes me think you just look at stats and they dont tell you enough over 5 games to say he is 13th best player in the comp

Anyway good on ya just not very accuarte

ever did this there would be debate but some of your picks are really out of whacj .
Maybe you just go off ststa alone or something.
Anyway good on ya just not very accuarte .

speaking of accuracy ?

Without being too harsh i think it is hard enough to find 50 good players in the CABL .

Joel Goodenough has been terrible for last 3 yrs .
Gower , very average baller but above #37 .
Mann he's been overrated for 10+ years .
Pilkington can jump ................ nada else .
Hambour , move him up a few .
Molitor , Breheny , Clausen have some upside .
Sullivan deserves some kudos , delivers when needed.
Hobo Jr. Upside , good attitude .
Bungey at #23 ,is how many mins he plays b4 foul out
Spaddevechia , nice game , tad underrated .
Puddifoot in the teens , no higher .
Arnold,does what it takes,MVP,title,lunatic,tops.
Zorich above Sutton .
Cam Wilson never gets the deserved respect # 3
Matthews and Burdon at =

awesome right up very imformative well deserved ball

I barely looked at the stats, and I have been around these guys alot, which is maybe why I see things a bit differently. Players play well against different teams.

Back Wiper, Reardon has been on an NBL list before and has won championships at SEABL level with Geelong..think he had 17 a game last year., and I have seen him play twice already this year...trust me, he is deserving!

I agree Hoban should get a sixers development spot, but still needs to get consistant which is why he is out of the 20.
Don't think Jye Watson is useless. Hasn't done much since injury but the guy can play...50 pts on the eagles is all i will say.

I went on the canadian from what I heard from others(team mates and those that have played against him). Time will tell i suppose but South seem to be going alright so far with him. Two 30 point games and two 20 point games already and can rebound.

...and I have already spoken about why Wilson is so high.

Biased towards what? You might disagree with their rankings, but they seemed quite impartial to me with no one team favoured too strongly.

I think #781 is a bit upset he didn't make the list!

Also #781, i would take Clarke over Mann these days. Mann is well past his best while Clarke is in career best form.

Have you seen Dearman play? Athletic, good defender, fit, and is a good body shape. I think he might make the list in a year or two.

Willis, like I said in my report, needs to play more than a couple of ggod games to get on the list so I guess we agree on that one.

Oh, and how many people who own and carry around a lap top do you think would be lining up at centrelink.

tiger coach - Adelaide Southern Suns and Centrals were getting pumped by 50 every week back then. There are no teams that that happens to these days. Sure the bottom teams get pumped by the top teams every now and then, but no where near the frequency it was happening to ASS and Centrals. They were a laughing stock.

I respectfully disagree. I believe our league today is as strong as it was 10 years ago, hands down. Not sure about 20 years ago.. can't comment on that

Not always lockstock. In 96 the suns had 6 wins and 6 in 97, from memory, not great, but they were competitive. Maybe you are just upset *jokes* because most of your clubs descent players and coach ended up there. Olbrich won woolacot in 95 with the suns.

Good work I Love ABL. I think it is great that someone would take the time to put a list like that together and stir some emotion around the local league.

I have to say that I don't agree with some of your selections, mostly because you seem to have applied different strokes for different folks (I tend to agree with 182781 in that it seems you ignore 5 or 6 years of consistency from some in favour of 4 weeks of good form from others), but I'm certainly not about to bag you out for it.

PS: I would take Clarke over Mann any day of the week - basketball or otherwise.

Great discussion. Don't be haters when it personal opinions. And that's a pretty good listing overall. Leid Burdon on any other team would be a starting 5 player and average 15 points 8 rebounds. He is a quality player and can guard a player in any position. Very unselfish too.

Hoban is unlucky. The boy is a massive human and can bang with the best of them. Still young and is clearly going to get better.

Matthews deserving. If he was a coupleof inches taller would be on an NBL roster and playing good minutes and producing good numbers.

Sutton should not be that high. CErtainly there on reputation. Can control a game well but doesn't have a massive impact on the result. A good role player in any team but not goig to be a superstar in the ABL.

Kane Oakley is also there on reputation. Asn't done a heap this season. Once again a role player but he could have been anything. A really nie guy and rubs off on the court that way. Needs to get a bit of sh1t about him. Can dominate a game when required. I hope to see it at some stage this year.

Zorich's numbers are as good as anybody's. Is shotting it alot better and like the whole starting 5 at the Rockets are producing quality numbers in limited minutes. Zorich is the second best point guard behind Matthews by a long way.

Once again a greatdiscussion. These are my opinions so don't hate me for it.

Not sure about Mapunda ranking 11 spots ahead of Hambour. Their stats are similar this season so there seems to be an allowance for potential in Mapunda's ranking.

Don't hate...interesting comments. I don't think Oakley and Sutton are there on their reps. Like I said it wasn't a list for the first 5 games this year. Oakley was in the all star 5 last year. And Sutton had a great year too...lead league in assists and was a championship point guard the year before. You don't make the sixers without being a great player.

Leif Burdon was unlucky but I don't think he would start for alot of teams esp Norwood, Forestville, West. Also, I havn't ckecked the stats but I doubt if he was getting 15 and 8 last year but i do agree that he can defend multiple positions. He is a great role player for North. Should make my list at the end of the year if he keeps improving. I must say that I found the last 10-15 on the list the hardest to pick. L.Burdon, like I said maybe should be there ahead of Goodenough(47) and even Atkins(45)...was close and not easy to choose, but i am comfortable with my choices.

I think Modra and Halleran are really the only ones to get high on the list due to this years form alone so i don't think I have been too inconsistant there. Modra did get the MVP of the summer league and has seemed to have gone on with it. Halleren as I have said previously I did go on reputation and this years form but if he keeps it up I don't think too many people would argue at seasons end.

DaddyO, I kind of hear ya but Mapunda had a great year last year and has been solid the two years before that. His stats may be down this year, but that would be due to having a different role with the rockets. He is quite versatile which probably helped him too.

I have already said Hambour was unlucky not to be higher, but there are quite alot of good centers around at the moment and i had trouble getting him in front of them. Very good player tho.

Not sure how versatile Mapunda is! He can play the 3, is too slow to play the 2 and too small (and doesn't have that type of game) to play the 4. One of (if not the) most overrated played in the league IMO.

I just tried to compile a list of the current top 640 AFL players. Tough job. Pretty good effort in terms of your order of the top 50.

Sorry, been off line for a while.

Isaac, probably doesn't mean much but not sure I understand...

"It's not quite that the standard of player generally is not as good, just that the competition attracted a higher standard then (better pay, I'm assuming, or at least better pay relative to NBL jobs)."

I love ABL, well done. This is the kind of promotion our league needs. Slightly off topic I know, and I may not be looking in the right places, but I have a suggestion. I'm sure the amount of people who read and post on here would love a weekly breakdown on the weekends games from someone who was actually there, so would anyone be prepared to do a write-up on games they see. I sure BSA or BA do one, but are they actually at the game, and how available are the reviews??? Then refer people to this site to check out game reviews.

Just saying that what we're missing are the imports and other NBL players - the rest of the players are still a pretty decent standard. So, the standard is only lower because most of the best players aren't suiting - it's not that they couldn't if they didn't want to.