I remember Truslove and Cioffi getting some garbage time. Doesn't seem to happen any more. When we were down by heaps against the Tigers, I was hoping Dodman would get a chance.

of course he won't play them, he makes them sit on the pine until they are so jacked of they go and sign somewhere else and make people like me complain about all of the great South Australian talent that is playing elsewhere. Thanks Phil.... for nothing

They probably have way too much hair for Phil's liking!

Basically, he doesn't know how to coach young guys. I mean, if he played them, he might have to actually tell them something about the game!

He can't relate to anyone born in the 80's

So far, none of these are valid or realistic excuses. See the pre-season for examples of Dodman and Burdon getting minutes. Having some digs are fine, but I think it's a valid topic - surely there's a real reason?

Down by 20+ against the Tigers and no Dodman in the last couple of minutes, etc.

Does the club avoid it to escape match payments for specific players?

Not a bad point Isaac..

Sometimes, when teams are getting pumped, coaches like to keep the guys out there that caused the team to get pumped. A kind of "shaming" for them I suppose. And we haven't seen the Sixers pump anyone this year so there hasn't been an opportunity to let the lesser guys bask in the glory of a big win.

And some guys are just there to make up the numbers so are unlikely to get playing time in the first place..

Leaving your guns out there risks injury, right? Not convinced that Smyth would be the sort to shame players to be honest.

I can imagine that some might consider Burdon a place holder, but Dodman?

Come now people, this is just the usual baseless winge and is frustrating because nobody ever puts up any objective facts.

It is not unusual for teams not to play development players in games. If fact, there is a disincentive for teams to do so anyway under the NBL rules. That said, Burdon has still been on court for limited minutes twice this year. Sutton and Ng aren't exactly old. They are getting plenty of minutes. Neither were Forman or Holmes starved for minutes when they were playing here.

So if the complaint is that Smyth doesn't know how to bring the best out of young players, so be it. People point to Forman and Holmes leaving for this reason. But who is to say that Smyth didn't get the best out of Forman and Holmes that he could? He developed them to the extent players that they were producing good results in substantial minutes? Have they massively surpassed expectations since leaving the Sixers?

Jacob:
2005-6 (adl): 33 mpg 8.2 rpg 3.5 apg 13.48 ppg
2006-7 (sou): 33 mpg 8.6 rpg 1.7 apg 9.24 ppg
2007-8 (sou): 36 mpg 10.3 rpg 1.7 apg 12.5 ppg

Oscar:
2005-6 (adl): 25 mpg 4.4 rpg 1.1 apg 10.5 ppg
2006-7 (nz): 31 mpg 5.1 rpg 1.5 apg 10.6 ppg
2007-8 (nz): 26 mpg 4.4 rpg 0.9 apg 8.4 ppg

I will admit that Jacob has improved his range under Shane's tutelage, but there is little to suggest they were not acheiving their potential under Phil. Certainly no MIP awards going out as was suggested when they left the Sixers who 'didn't develop them'.

My post is mostly addressing 'skyhooked' and 'cat 15' by the way...

Clubs have to pay development players extra if they play, don't they? Either way, it would be nice to see some of the younger guys in the actual 10, as opposed to the 12 or 13, when Gerlach was in - (although he's what, 23(?), so not exactly 'devloping' anymore?).

Indeed, that's another point in itself. We see 'the young guys' in the team as Sutton and Ng, and although they have some NBL experience, they have nowhere near the experience of young players from other clubs - playing straight out of AIS or junior from ages 18 or 19, or coming back after years of college ball at a similar age to Sutton, Ng, and Gerlach now.

XY what are Oscar and Jacobs Minutes in the seasons before you listed? It seems to me if you go to the AIS you will get 10-20 minutes a game however if you didn't then you might not see any court time during the season no matter how much you are up by or down by. When the Sixers have been getting killed in the past like last season it would have been good to give Dodman ago, perhaps he isn't going to do much at NBL Level at the moment but the fans don't care we just want to see him play if the opportunity arises!

Has anyone actually come out and asked him directly?

I have a mate why writes article Crows and Power related AFL articles for the Adelaide review. He can attend AFL press conferences after matches in Adelaide. Does anyone have a media pass that allows then to attend NBL press conferences? If they do why not ask him the direct question as to why he chooses not to play Dodman or other kids in junk time. And what he has to do to get some consideration for more minuets ion the future?

If Phil Smyth was Neil Craig or Mark Williams he would be under enormous media scrutinize to play the kids if they were losing.

Surly someone has to have a press pass and if he does not answer the question ask him why?

well put XY

Most teams in the NBL dont play their developement players e.g the breakers have Chris Daniel and Brent Charelton whom they dont play AT ALL. NO MINUTES. Even when they were down by 25 to the tigers

Max, Charleton played in one of those Melbourne games. Kersten is a development player and has played a few minutes this season.

Joe M, good idea. If it is the club watching their wallet, then that is a different story that doesn't require reasoning from Smyth.

KingJames, IMO, those were days when Smyth did the right thing with younger players: solid contracts for upcoming players and good minutes (even with a deep team and in a championship year in 2002). Think about it - Holmes, Forman and Illman all got good minutes in that year, with Jason Williams around too.

cos there not up to NBL level..??

Yes, and Smyth did SUCH a good job developing the young guys that Forman and Holmes left, and Illman switched to footy! These guys did get some good minutes in 2002, but they did not play 1 second come playoff time.

As for Dodman not playing, I think it is bullshit. If Smyth wanted to send Dench a message for his first half play last week (and I COMPLETELY support Phil on this one), then not putting him back on in the second half gets the job done. But sending Dodman on INSTEAD of him says it better.

We can't seriously be worried about additional player payments for the development guys can we? After all, we are apparently happy to pay heaps for a coach who just sits on his arse, and an import who does F * C K all! Melbourne and Brisbane play their development players all the time.

The most disappointing part about this is that Dodman and Burdon actually impressed in the trial games. All I'm saying is perhaps at the end of a game which isn't close, Phil might consider sending in a kid instead of putting a 42 year old back on the floor.

Your first point is a separate thing IMO. And not playing them in the play-offs was fine - it was their first season after all and the results for the team speak for themselves. The question is regarding Dodman getting on in garbage time, not in the play-offs remember.

Burdon has played on the road (Dodman too? Not sure). Could come down to NBL rules or payment I suspect - hard to explain it many other ways.

So how does it develop a kid better to throw him into a game in Sydney or Perth rather than infront of a home crowd?

And no, I'm not talking about Dodman getting a run in the playoffs, because what reason do I have to think that we'll make the playoffs? The one slightly good thing to come out of last season was Matt Sutton. That was the only inspired move that Smyth has made in the past two years. And now the same kid is basically scared to shoot the ball, even though he's still hitting 52% from the floor, better than any of our other guards. Also, you would think that if you were struggling to beat a zone defence, as we have in a number of games, that putting a guy like Burdon in would be worth a shot?

It doesn't, that's why I'm wondering if it's an NBL rule or financial decision. e.g., with the Breakers, Brent Charleton is 11th man and Ryan Kersten is a development player. From memory, there is some bizarre situation that makes it so that Kersten, while further down the roster, is in a better position. Something like Charleton can only suit when one of the ten is injured, whereas Kersten can play in any home game. Someone else might know more.

You might be right actually, as two years ago we had that coin toss crap with Gower and Hambour for who actually got to dress for home games as 10th man with the development guys.

OK, here's a theory - Burdon and Dodman 11 and 12. Can play on the road in the event of injury to someone in the ten (e.g., Burdon in Townsville or wherever it was). Can't play at home unless someone is injured (not the case versus Tigers as we had the full ten?).

We can only play development players at home otherwise: Lalic, Gerlach and Breheny.

Isaac my point was Oscar and Jacob came in with some good credentials (AIS - Not to mention they played for Sturt ;) ) and were always certain to get some minutes. However someone like Sutton was never used originally and the only time he finally got minutes was a game against Newley as they thought he could do well against him due to the Eagles connection. Ever since then we have realised he can fit in at this level to some degree. If they were to give Dodman a chance perhaps he could offer us something as well but we will never know till he actually gets some court time.

I am still going with the Theory that Smyth doesn't play him or other development players due to the fact that they have to pay them extra if they get on the court. If that theory isn't true then Smyth's coaching is even more ridiculous.

Well he only gave Cioffi garbage time and then cut him. Now hes playing in Europe. Well maybe he thinks if he doesn't play them and then they go somewhere else then he can't be blamed as much. He can say well they didn't fit in my plans of losing

KingJames, I think my theory about the technicalities of positions in the roster could be more likely. e.g., he's played Burdon on the road. Benefit of the doubt until you learn otherwise, maybe?

KingJames, not really sure what point you are trying to make. NBLstats only has mpg breakdowns back to 2003-4 but for reference they are:

Oscar:
2001-2 - 27 games ?? mpg
2002-3 - 23 games ?? mpg
2003-4 - 34 games 20 mpg
2004-5 - 33 games 26 mpg
2005-6 - 33 games 25 mpg

Jacob:
2001-2 - 18 games ?? mpg
2002-3 - 30 games ?? mpg
2003-4 - 33 games 34 mpg
2004-5 - 33 games 32 mpg
2005-6 - 33 games 33 mpg

I am not sure what you expected to make out of the above. Is it supposed to be surprising that they got better minutes as they became better players?

So then there is Ng - ??, 10, 11, 19 & 21 minutes (now 24 years old). Sutton - 14, 15 mpg in two seasons (age 22).

Hill is also a young guy that saw a fair bit of court action over 2 seasons before his career was stalled by an unsportsmanlike foul. Smyth brought Hill in initially on a mid-season rescue package, but he had some chances (16, 15 & 12 mpg in his first seasons with us).

You can argue about whether the court time the guys above saw was too little or two much, but when it comes down to it, the blanket generalisations that Smyth never plays young players is just not true.

So what is the purpose of having the development players suited up if they aren't ever going to get a game?

With Mahers injury, should Burdon (or someone else) get some minutes, or should we rely on Chappell an Ng to pick up the slack?

i would like to see all of the above.

More minutes to Ng, Burdon, and Chappell to pick up.

Erik has already played minutes interstate, and should be given a crack in Singapore as well.

I would also like to see Burdon given say 10mpg in mahers absent, as who knows he may come on like Sutton did last season, and may even prove to be better than a Ng or a Sutton and become a good future prospect for the 36ers. Being a SA boy im sure fans wont complain at seeing him given a run. I would also like to see us try and blood a young SF to this team, is Breheney or Lalic who are development players future prospects at SF??

Jonno, don't think either are SF prospects. Both are probably more like undersized PFs I think - happy to hear opinions suggesting otherwise though. If any of them have a legitimate claim there, I think it's probably Dodman.

To my knowledge Cioffi never played a game for the 36ers and Dodman got a run in an away game against Sydney last season when they beat the 36ers by about 50 points due to injury, he might have also played in a game at Perth too last season.

I swear I remember Cioffi getting a go. I think Dodman may have suited 2-3 times last season going by NBLstats.com.

Isaac, I think you might be thinking of Jarrod Wilson, not Cioffi. Cioffi never played a second in a regular season game for Adelaide.

Must've seen him in a pre-season game perhaps. Or just warm ups even! Can remember him in the uniform on court at some point.

I'm sure I saw Cioffi have a run as as well FWIW.

FFS, give Coffa a call & put an end to this crap.
FWIW, I don't recall him suiting, but I have missed 3 games, in 16 years.