Is it only Morphett Vale that has this problem or is this something that all the stadiums are struggling with?

My daughter plays in the Forestville team and she is NOT pleased that her game is cancelled.

I agree with concerned, this situation isn't good!

WOW!!!!!

People are finally going to realise the impact of the abuse of referees that they receive not only at stadiums, but on public forums like this.

You ask what can be done. Many things.

Stop the abuse of refs. Sure, if they make a mistake, they need to be aware of it, but the continual questioning and general negativity towards refs is one of the biggest problems.

Encourage more juniors to ref a coule of games here and there. If we could get say 4 kids from every team agree to ref, they would only need to do maybe 1 game a fortnight, if even that much.

Generally encourage the referees. How many of you who play or coach actually thank the refs at the end of the game? Just a "thansk ref", to acknowledge their time and effort over your game, I am sure they would be happy with that!!

More positive energy to refs, and hopefully these cancelled games will be a rarity.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but it has been one of my pet things for a while now.

I am also sorry to hear that players have had to have their game cancelled because of the current problems.

Interesting. There was a few social games cancelled at Pasadena on Thursday night for the same reason.

I offered the stadium manager an excellent solution. I'll ref and play at the same time if he doesn't mind. Heck, I seem to come up against dudes that do this every week anyway, so why not join them?

Concerned, I think that you will find that it was the U18 div 1 girls that was cancelled. The U16's defeated F/Ville. There was also one more game cancelled however, I am unsure which one. BASA was advised of this problem on Monday and didn't do anything about it. I am sure that Jirachi will be able to shed some more light on the subject later on.

The u/18 girls (Tigers v V'Fille) @ M/Ville was also cancelled tonight. I think this is a huge concern. I think that all stadiums are struggling for quality ref's, and this situation will do nothing to help it. It's seems like only div 1 games have been cancelled. Why are there not enough referee's with the qualifications to do these games? Seems like it may be an issue again in the future.

As an aside to this, I noticed that a div 1 game (14 boys) only had one ref.

According to a ref, other referees who play were scheduled to ref at stadiums where they were not playing later in the evening and it was this that caused the problem. Jirachi?

I know that the new referees coordinator has been working desparately to find refs to cover games.

Hopefully things will get better in the new year when Neil settles into the co ordinators job and can start fixing the mess the state is in with refs.

There were solo's at marion as well tonite. Not only a problem for Morphett Vale but most stadiums in general.

the under 18 div 2 boys game was cancelled last nite due to the lack of refs. the stadium hadnt tried too hard to find more as the coach rang around and found two refs straight away willing to ref the game. also, at m/vale at the time of the game, there were many refs sitting down doing nothing. wats going on wid that? so much for the lack of refs.

Umm maybe its qualified refs for the games being played.

Also, maybe refs have had enough of doing 4 games straight, when they get nothing but grief for it.

People who give the refs heartache and abuse are the people to blame for this situation, but of course it will be the refs who are putting their foot down that will cop the blame.

they were willing to do the games as they got asked if they wanted to do them and they replied yes.

I'd say the UIC's phone bill would very much diagree with you.

According to the Area Manager the clubs were informed of the situation for referees. They had 2 options, they could either supply a ref or have the game cancelled.

If they were so eager to do games, they could have been contacting the referee's co-ordinator a week ago like he was asking everyone to if they could help out with more games.

I find it hard to beleive a coach can find 2 refs (do they normally ref at that stadium??) when the co ordinator and the UIC obviously couldnt get the roster filled.

How come when I went to watch the Div 1's in the 9:45 slot at MVale, the game prior had 5 uniformed refs watching? Surely they could have stepped in to the U18s slot to prevent the rescheduling of a Div 1 game. Bit lazy.

As an ex-referee I reckon that half the problem is the pay. That's why I quit!!! I treated it like a job and tried to act professionally. But seriously, Level 2 = $7 per game???? Get out. That's really crap and I feel for you ref's it's a good job ur even still out there!!!

Who would answer to that? Is it up to the stadium to raise umpiring payment, BASA or even UIC?
Somebody wanna shed some light on that one?

I doubt very much that they would have cancelled the games if they did have enough refs. C'mon people this is BASA we're talking about its all about $$$.

Bystander, it is BASA that have to look at the payment rates. All stadiums pay the same rates that BASA sets. It's got nothing to do with the stadium/UIC.

OK this was the referee situation at M/Vale last night...

Of the 5 referees not reffing during that time....

1- was meant to be playing in the 18 Boys 2 cancelled game.

1- was reffing til 8:30pm and started again at 9:15pm so couldnt have reffed either the 18 Boys 2 or the 18 Girls 1 games

2 - only arrived at the venue at 8:45pm from a 7pm game at Wayville where they were playing/coaching and only came back to do the 9:45pm game as a favour to the UIC.

And the ONE referee that the 18 Boys 2 coach had at 6pm was approached by the UIC and didn't reply.

It's so easy to criticise when you don't know the facts hey!?

...and two referees that were there only made themselves available at 4:30pm on Friday.

(Sorry I really should double check what I have/haven't written before I post :P)

Well i wasn't having a go, so you can certainly settle down on that Alf. I was just saying what I saw, and if they were available, they should have been reffing. I wasn't critisising anybody.

Well if its up to BASA then the pay rates will NEVER rise. They are stiffs. Yes they are in debt, but surely this is a matter that needs to be dealt with???

Well i wasn't having a go, so you can certainly settle down on that Alf. I was just saying what I saw, and if they were available, they should have been reffing. I wasn't critisising anybody.

Well if its up to BASA then the pay rates will NEVER rise. They are stiffs. Yes they are in debt, but surely this is a matter that needs to be dealt with???

Why should they have been reffing just because they were avilable.

Maybe they were carrying injuries that needed to be nursed.

Friday was a warm day, perhaps they needed a break between games (how many players play 4 in a row, with no subs??)

You obviously have never reffed bystander, so maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions before you know how hard it actually is to ref a game.

I'd say 'bit lazy' was having a go bystander. I agree re BASA I don't think increasing referees pay would be high on their agenda.

Yogee I think you'll see that bystander did infact say he was a ref. And from the explaination above they weren't available.

Another point... the two refs that the coach found both rang AFTER the two games were called off and both ended up reffing as much as they were available for.

maybe those who YOU think are 'above' ref juniors are already involved as uic's or they are doing so many other games in different capacities, that there is SUCH things as family, work etc and perhaps the first thing to go is juniors.

Now correct me if i'm wrong but given the postion of this scenario

ref a is a level 3 during the abl season has a game Saturday night at M/vale and gets paid say $90 he/she is treated with some respect by players and coaches within a structure that most are aware of what is what. he/she has another abl game on the sunday at gawler.
they are then rostered for div 1 tuesday night and evaulate one game.
travel time and allowing for being in the stadium at least 1/2 hr before game takes up all of sat night all of sunday afternoon and a fair bit of tuesday night.Due to shortage of ref's they help out on div 2s another night.

say they live in city travel near wayville travel to gawler or m/vale would be at least an hour game. hour travel time one hour in stadium before tip off 2 hour game one hour home 5 hours time for $90. they pay their own petrol maintain their own cars supply their own shoes/pants/jackets and lower panels get paid less for the same type of hours.

do they then give up a friday night with a new baby in the house a wife who has been on her own most of the week. or do they leave a girlfriend to follow them from stadium to stadium 'watching them ref' do they give up a night when they might get some shopping done some well earned rest simple chores like washing and ironing. do they fit in juniors be paid $12 a game and be yelled at and abused by parents, players and coaches who believe they know the rules.

they are even at times either held in high regard by their refs or there are the ones who believe that they could do better, if they make a wrong call they aren't trying hard enough, if they offer advice, they are big noting themselves, if they don't offer advice they are up themselves.

I've seen the andrew filmer's, the benn macdonald's the phil haines, john clover, nathan wieland, daniel haebich, tristian graham do years and years and years of junior ball both saturday mornings and friday nights. If they don't do juniors so be it they have earnt their stripes and done the hard yards they have been where you are now.

when you, if you do get to the top see how you fit it all in.

Excellent points, but does this wife of yours know about the girlfriend that goes to games with you?

(Sorry!)

To make up for that... Have clubs tried including something in their regular newsletter that urges parents to not harass the referees? Surely there is always room for more education on this topic?

i actually meant that either their was a wife at home...

or there could be a girlfriend

didn't mean both realised after i posted how it sounded

It had nothing to do with BASA.

It was simply a shortage of available referees. People not making themselves available, for whatever reason (and I am sure most of them were legitimate).

And I do apologise to bystander, I read the comment about them being an ex-ref, just didnt stick in my head.

I know that Forestville are introducing a zero tolerance policy in the new year.

BASA has a policy, yet it requires the referee on the game to go up to the abusive person themselves and give them a sheet of paper as a warning. I don't think this is what we need for young referees - confidence is at a premium - doing stuff like this just eats away at it.

I am the UIC at Wayville on Friday nights. I have 3 experienced referees every Friday night, I have 7 less-experienced referees to be paired up with them. 5 of those less experienced officials also referee on Saturday mornings (where they are the more experienced guys).

Pay rates are crap for juniors and div 2/3/4/5, not much that we can do about it as referees - we need to be taken care of by the BASA Referees Commission.

Please remember that referees are trying to improve the sport that we all love. We're expected to start of perfect and then get better.

During the ABL season, my commitment to basketball is about 20 hours and the only free day from hoops is Thursday.

Ask around?

The UIC goes through the database and everyone he knows every week. What else is he meant to do?

If you know anyone who's willing to ref maybe you should get them to contact the UIC or stadium (any stadium) because everyone could use an extra ref.

I'm with alf.

People like Jirachi, Nathan Weiland, evenmyself have mentioned for many times that more refs are needed, and people shold think about doing a course.

The UIC's ring through anyone on their list, and then some, and the co-ordinator also tries to get people.

What else should be done to get a ref to cover a game?? Kidnap them and hold a gun to their head? Seems to be almost the only thing that hasnt been done. (and I am in no way advocating that to happen!!)

i hear that some abl refs haven't been paid for their games from last season and the season finished in august and you expect a travel allowance?

under phil smyth's redevelopment "plan" many years ago - all basketball would be centrally coordinated / controlled.

oddly enough we are getting 1 ref to reserve men and women's games and I bet you there would be two refs running at some basa run social competition somewhere else.

we need to structure or tier the referee's roster - if you will only do socuial and no district - you can not be a level 2 etc

give the new director time to settle and get a handle

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I think you'll find that the majority of people being asked to do their level 2 these days are done so to push more referees into district rather then on the basis of pure talent.People are selected to make up 'numbers' rather then them being capable of reffing at a senior district level (like used to be the requirement). So in a way this already happens.

While social pays are higher then district, you'll always have people choosing to ref social over district. Not to mention there is less pressure at social level with the absence of abusive coaches and spectators.Plus there's also the added frustration some referee's have wth the district system to the extent they'd rather just ref social and get their basketball fill from that then be involved in a system they dislike.

OK, for people out there thinking they might want to be a ref how do you go about it.

Starting Age
Contacts
Social v District
Timing to become ref?
Training supplied by whom?
etc