not at all

BA is more institutional and the foundation

NBL is a business

this is what we just got rid of here

it's easy to bash BA isn't it? are they that bad?

- our national program is ranked second in the world by FIBA
- our international junior results were again exceptional this year (2nd, fifth and fifth in that company is great)
- they have a national insurance scheme (particularly valuable in the area of public liabaility and D&O but weaker on personal injury) that is the envy of many other sports in Australia
- they have a national technology program that offeres free competition management software and websites to all associations
- they run excellent junior national events
- they have an outstanding talent development program through ITC etc that has been copied by many other basketball nations and they do it mainly with volunteers
- they have a national tribunal system which few other sports can boast
- they run a competition (WNBL) that GETS free to air tv coverage without paying for it....and is not simply a recut of last nights foxtel game

You know, for an organisation that takes less than 1 million dollars per year (read the annual report) from the playing public I reckon they do ok. Not perfect, but without the massive resources of AFL or ARL or Cricket.

Some valid points HO. But where are they at right now? These things have been inplace for some time. Where are the camp lists for this year? Where is the game being developed outside the elite bracket? Why is facility managment/development left to private investors? Are the Nationals better then 10 years ago? Where has the media gone from Nationals? I don't think they should be combined. NBL needs a world search to find the next person. Eddie everywhere - no not Groves McGuire would be good.

ella, ella, ella

Umbrella is fine.
But what I've seen of BA recently is that it isn't promoting BASKETBALL to the general Public very well.
Can we see some published #'s playing the game over the last 10 years and see if it's gone up, surely the #'s exist.
NBL should be run separately but report to BA. BA will be too focussed on elite few at the xpense of the many.
NBL need a person similar to the standard AFL/Rugby /Sydney Olympics have provided.

Sorry Paul, I was not arguing for the two to be combined. I am undecided on the merits of that.

I was responding to the mindless slagging of #144855. My point is BA do a pretty good job maintaining what they do with the limited funds they generate from the participant player base this country has. Most of their income comes from federal government and is totally allocated for elite - they have to spend the majority of that money in that area. ASC hands over 4 mil and says spends 3.6 of that on elite programs (cause they win medals, not kids at Starplex on Saturday arvo) - what do people want BA to do?

Compare this to the AFL, who generate the majority of their income from their elite COMPETITION - and reinvest it right through the game. The NBL return nothing to BA because BA don't own it and because the NBL itself has been financially hamstrung since Bill Palmer left.

As to where they are now - here's an example. BA drew 9000 to a Boomers - NZ game last year - unheard of figures for an international game in this country not featuring a Dream Team of some kind. I think for a cash poor second tier National Federation, they are probably doing better than any other cash poor second tier national federation.

The game has grown well in Victoria and WA in recent years, Vic is reporting +3% per annum growth in a mature market which is impressive.

Not sure what you mean by facility development but if you are talking local then most is not private - most is community association/local govt partnership. Major stadium development has virtually always been the domain of private/government partnerships for sport.

WA are about to build a new "perry lakes" in conjunction with the state government.

KC- gone
The numbers in Australia range from between 220,000 (approx registered) to 600,000 participants. Yet some states (Vic) have not been capable of providing their numbers to BA in the past because of how they are structured locally - not anyone's fault, its a function of their own success so no, the numbers are not readily available.

I see the faults too, buts its just toon easy to sit in the arm-chair and slag, without understanding what does happen.

Thanks HO for # and comments.
I just see in my local #'s getting less

Umbrella,ella,ella....

145374

I think you need to read both my posts not just the last one - the last one was a response to a couple of questions.

My reference to the 9k was a direct response to a q. asked by Paul above when he wanted to know what BA had been doing lately.

You probably need to get your head around the soccer thing yourself, it was a masterful piece of sports administration.. here is a brief history.

* ran a disastrous national competition that had more debt problems that the NBL (NSL)
* was managed by a Board that was factionally confined and controlled
* had fundamentally fractured relationships with all major stakeholders
* ran itself into major debt over ten years.

How was it resolved:

Basically the Federal government handed it 10 mil in no interest loans to get its shite together once and for all.

so...the message is, run your sport like a basket case, and you can be generously saved by the AUS government.

You sound like you are typically parochial and that helps a lot doesn't it?

And while we are on it, don't be naievly fooled by the A-league hype. In the first year of operation no clubs made money, in year two no clubs made money. In year two it came to light that the Sydney FC was propped up to the tune of 4 mil by Frank himself and then the league had to run the Perth club and resolve an ownership change in NZ after the first ownership group could not produce a competitive or profitable model. Outside of Melbourne, A-league crowds actually dropped in Year 2 overall. And you might just remember what happened to the Sheilaroos in Asia last month and hesitate long enough to consider the good that will do them.

Whatever you do...make sure you look at an issue with a really superficial eye and only believe the good things written about other sports.

Ok, so now you are specifically talking about the NBL. I am not, and have not been in my three posts. I started my post because someone just decided to slag BA because thats easy to do without knowledge or thinking about it - sort of like you chose to do.

I am no fan of the NBL and its recent administration. I think its been poor. Bums on seats are poor for the NBL.

But...don't taint BA because bums on seats at the NBL, a totally seperately run legal entity, can't draw good crowds.

Maybe the poor management of the NBL is the resaon the two orgs should be one. Maybe the NBL's 25 year cry of "we need to be separate so that we can totally focus on what we do" is now being proved crap.

Your Adelaide assumption is fine by the way, but mark it as a point in history. The Perth Glory in the NBL were consistently drawing 13000+ for abourt five years - and that was in the NSL - and now they are drawing significantly poorer. The Northern Spirit drew spectacular crowds in the old NSL for two years and then died to nothing. If the Adelaide team in the A-League are drawing 8-10k per game in seven years time then, and maybe only then, can you claim they have got it right. History suggests it will not be the case.

And to cap off your logic, Adelaide United lost money (thats P&L for the season) last year - despite the crowds which according to you will pay the bills.

After just two years of the A-league, with the exception of Melbourne, crowd attendences were heading down......all I am saying is don't believe their hype.