Managers should be given 1 warning and then a tech.

There is no excuse for it, but what about the junior refs doing senior games with the bullshit "Hollywood - NBA" calls (waving arms, exaggerating signals)...

it is almost as bad.

Doesn't some responsibility rest with all the other non abusive adults sitting on their backsides condoning the poor behaviour of other adults by not telling them that enough is enough and to chill out?

Managers have no right to critisize referees. Toss them out if they cross the line of tolerance. They are there to organise scoring rosters, drink bottles, and interstate trips, other than that they shouldn't say squat!!!
Junior referees need to know their "powers" so they can inforce the rules, I'm not suggesting being a power nazi, but be sensible and penalize people that have no right to question your decisions.

Managers can't say boo to the refs. The only people allowed to talk (politely) to the refs during a game are the coach and the court captain.

I agree with real ugly, it's all good complaining about the abuse but if some of the spectators and or team management helped by not putting up with the abuse and clamping down on their own respective teams it would go a long way to reducing the problem.

As a TM and parent - the issue with saying something to the abusive coach - is that then your kid gets bullied - my kid has not started since something was said - when have started every time for the last 3 years. Coach also gets in Div 1 coaches ear to say the the kid and parent are problems - I know because I said something to a coach who is a bully and this is now the treatment that is being served up - Instead of the Div 1 coach speaking to Moi the problem TM and parent - just takes on board what the bully says. Kids sport should not be this difficult.

tm - exactly - but you obviously hit a nerve and may be paying the price.

ride the season out if it is not too painful.

saw a team manager the other saturday - standing up in front of the bench arguing along with the coach from her team re something that was purely between the bench, refs and other coach. she & co was literally blocking the game from progressing.

teenagers reffing the game let her go - i believe sherrif gibson stepped in and sorted.

silly thing was they made a fool of themselves because they were incorrect in their knowledge of rules.

legit point anon

lets keep "abusive" in perspective

People will always be able to abuse referees at basketball, because the community which makes up Basketball accepts this type of behaviour.

Go down to your local netball competition and start hooking into the umpire. I wonder how long it takes before you are ejected.

Should there be child umpires in district games?

If kids don't ref games how do they get better. If they are stuck reffing lower standard games how are they meant to get better.

Maybe they should as they did back in the old days start off doing mini-ball and only after the UIC on a saturday morning ask's them should they come out. Mini ball is a perfect training ground for these new referee's.

But my questions is who is the person that decides when a referee stop's wearing a green shirt??

If its the UIC then where is the consistancy across the stadium's....

wateva,
They get better at trainig like the plaers do.
Wait, ref's dont train or get coached during games so they don't get better.

Can you think of a lot of other sports where child umpires officiate?
Do Under 18 footballers have 12 and 13 year olds blowing the whistle?
There needs to be a better system than this present one because the non whistle blowing kids reffing frustrate the hell out of all concerned.
Beginning refs belong in the lower Divisons where beginning players have to start not whistling a District Div 1 game thru U12 to U18s.
The current umpiring diretor needs to recognise the problem or move on .

I think we are missing the point here. Abusive coaches or managers should not be tolerated!

the post above says, "No good uic will put jnr refs on a game that they know will be a close one or know that there is an abusive coach"

if there is an abusive coach by reputation, then that coach should be told...play by the rules...or get out!

if we accept it...we approve it.

Me
I agree with what you say, however I believe that the junior umpiring in SA is the problem.

The umpiring has not improved and in fact has become a bigger problem over the last few years since the new ref guy took over at BSA.

He was a baseball umpire and has no knowledge of basketball or basketball umpires and based on some of the stories I have heard the guy is a joke.

it's his way or the highway and his way is not working because the standard is going down down down.

The umpires should not except bad behavior but because they have no training and or confidence they simply except it for a while and then quit.

the teams will always push as far as they are permitted by those who enforce the rules.

#137108, do under 18 footballers have 12 and 13 yr olds blowing the whistle?...

No because it's harder getting football umpires let alone basketball ones. That's why all of the footy umps you see in amatuer and country leagues are about 70 yrs old!

Too many people get on here ref bashing without being aware of what really goes on. Let's face it, there is a ref shortage. Of senior ref's, not necessarily of junior ref's. Most senior ref's give what time they can on Friday nights, but these people have family and lives too, and are not always available. Hence we have to rely on junior ref's. Junior ref's, mostly young teenagers, are still in their learning phase, and yes, they make mistakes but every week they go out and try. More than the whingers do! They don't need your abuse. No juniors= no ref's= no games. Simple. they need encouragement, not only from their UIC's and other ref's, but from the coaches, players and yes, the parents. Please stop and think before you yell at them. They are learner's!
There are courses ran through the year to encourage people, young and old to become a ref.
Instead of sitting on the sidelines, why not do a course and see it from a ref's point of view, maybe learn something new, maybe have the courage to ref a few games..
You can always ring BasketballSA for information. In the meantime, consider this, If that was your child trying to ref, would you like the abuse hurled at them?...
I think not....

this is not a ref bash

the title was overbearing coaches and managers wearing kids down ie either opposition or referees to the point where they lose confidence to make a call and then they get control of the game.

my kids play saturday morning and week in week out you see it.

no problems with teh refs - they are learning just the same and the kids playing.

but when the uic is soft or a kid themselves or the kids are little reffing I can tell you who will come out winning the game.

Jenny Crane, those 70 year olds possess the things lacking with the 13 year olds in basketball- respect and experience.

ive palyed baskeball for 12/13 seasons and i can say i have had my fair share of abusing the refs i kno i shouldnt but i have and i have also coached and had run ins with refs. i have one point though some of the refs are underskilled and need to be trained up because most parents just want it to be a fair game and dont want their kids to be hurt while palying but you cant have a game without refs so i think they need to be better trained but they do a good job when they get to higher levels.

Its not a question of abuse being right in any circumstances but more why they are getting abused. The answer to that question is they don't have the skills to run the game and the players and everyone else connected with the game become frustrated.
It is never right to abuse an official fullstop.
But equally it is never right to place inexperienced underaged kids into games they have no hope of controlling.
Games are better off with one experienced ref than having a non whistle blowing child letting fouls go so much that the players start to react physically on court and the game disintergrates.
Kids need to ref games, age and grade appropriately not 12 and 13 year olds at Div 1 level attempting to run 18's.
Pay refs a decent return for their time, at least 20 bucks a game and 45 dollars for a solo and we might attract a few more.
Social centres are struggling to get refs paying $13 a game and recruitment is poor. Take out $5 for petrol and you ask is it worth it?

Junior players pay big money to play the game in Club fees and entry fees, parents pay entry fees etc so the expectation is at district Div 1 and 2 level the officials will be competent. Not mistake free or miss a few this and thats but on the whole competent. Across the season they get that some of the time but increasingly less so.

pay peanuts = get monkeys

here's the deal.
the only person to converse with an umpire is the coach or in their absence, the captain of the team. there are guidelines in place and when rules are broken they need to be followed. if there are abusive comments or gestures to an umpire, inexperienced or not it is the UIC responsibility to ensure that umpire follows them. if managers are abusive the technical foul should be used against the bench, if it happens again a second tech can be given and people can be evicted fromt he stadium. it needs to be done more often. its the only way people will learn. more directly, perents can be evicted straight away. soon they will realise that if they want to see their children play they will have to keep their mouth shut or be more respectful when its open!