16 Boys - West and Sturt

18 Boys - West and Sturt

18 west boys are not in carnival this year

West boys are not entered in 18 boys champ grade, so you might be a little off the mark there. Also they are probably fouth best or so in 18B1 at the moment - they have lost a couple of games already this season, to (I think) North and Norwood.

#423 - you just beat me to it!

Any sturt team.

16 Boys:
Put the house on a Dandenong v Melbourne Tigers Grand Final.......oh that's right, it won't be, coz Norwood have "arranged" it so that the probability is they'll meet in the semis. Nice scheduling.... So the chances are now that one GF'ist will come from West (most likely - a lock to win their pool), Norwood 2 *cough* - another nice bit of Norwood tweaking, Sturt or Keilor. Either way, Dandenong to win easily. I think West will make the GF.

18 Boys:
The semi's to be Frankston v Sturt, and Melbourne v Sandringham. Frankston and Sandringham in what should be a belter of a final if both are at full strength. North Harbour (NZ) being the dark horse, surely they'd have to be pretty good to come all this way wouldn't they? Why didn't West and North enter? Both would have increased the depth of the competition and certainly been better than Eastern or Sturt2.

Frankston will need to play well all week to get to Sandy in the final, no shoe ins here !!! Sandy suspect early but get better as the week end goes along.

Melbourne - Will Drewy coach the 18's or will someone else do it ?.... Maybe Dad !!!

16's - Melbourne vs Dandy... Could go either way .

what about the 14's

A lot of teams would find numbers hard for an easter weekend wouldn't they?

It's quite easy anon - Sturt 1 would be ranked FAR higher than Sturt 2 (who could be ranked near or last), so they get an easier draw. Nice sook though.

14 girls ?????????

Every team in every grade was seeded and that is reflected in the draw.

Then, when there are two Norwood teams in the same grade, one can choose which spot they want if they don't like their original draw, hence rendering seeding pointless.... Let's not pretend there is no bias in it Libertine!

No Pegs, I actually am not talking about Sturt, so don't tell me what I MUST be talking about.
Norwood have done it THIS year.

Not that I have a problem with it either. I personally think it's probably pretty smart.
But let's not pretend the draw is this even-steven playing field either.

705 - PM?

I think it is quite simple. If the club holding the tournament is playing with moving teams around to get the bestdraw for their #1 team then other clubs can protest by not participating the next year. That should at least ensure Norwood complies with the spirit of the seedings

Not everything in basketball is about Sturt Pegs.

Is Scotty B doing the Sturt 14's this year ? Also, how do you think they will rate against some of interstate teams ?

I hear Norwood should be the team to beat in most grades. And apparentley that will be pretty easy.

Awesome! Will be good to have another tournament option. Horsham is a good central location too.

Norwood girls should win , they have a training run and play no one till the cross overs, lucky aren't they.

In most carnivals , state champs etc Sturt do seem to be lucky with draws/less games, better playing times (opposition teams playing at Southern at 10pm and Port Adelaide 8 am the next morning) but then they have a few heavyweights behind them, not that I'm suggesting its anything other than 'good luck'.

SB,

Have you had a look at the Vic kid who came over a few weeks ago ?

Your thoughts ?





AM

anon #127880,

Draws are done accordin got the summer season positions.

And if anybody thinks that Paul Arnott or Colin Thompson would do Sturt any favours they are dreaming.

Often what looks like 'Good Luck' can actually be 'Good Effort'.

For all those that think Pro/Rel shouldn't happen. Sturt U14 Div 2 boys beat Forestville U14 Div 1 boys in a great game today.

Considering Forestville finished 6th after 9 rounds over summer, this clearly shows that some players who are able to compete at Div 1 level are not being allowed too.

#887
All for it, but in the current climate ur beloved Sturt is one of the main problems by having so many country kids keeping metro kids out of the Div 1 teams and not developing their other thousand teams.
#885
in my dreams the relationship between forestville and sturt is far to cosy and they share many elements including programs. Im sure that the two you mentioned have far more in common than u realise and work hand in hand when it doesnt compromise loyalties to the exclusion of other clubs. Check the draw times not just the draws and then form an opinion on how lucky some clubs are by coincidence.

#891

1/ Sturt does not see a boundry in relation to giving kids an opportunity to play elite level basketball. I am sure that your club would like those country players to play for them. If your, and all other clubs were willing to turn back all country players, you might have a point. Otherwise you are just full of it.

2/ I will guarentee you this. Paul Arnott is more likely to allow recruitng from Sturt that help them with a draw.

He has created bad blood between the clubs becasue in his prior role as coaching director for Forestville he allowed Forestville coaches to recruit from Sturt when they had an agreement in place against it. While at the same time threatened to pull Forestville out of City South because a Forestville coach offered div 3 wanted to move to Sturt.

Watch out for this years draws. If you want to see Sturt unfreindly draws you will see them.

3/ I have no idea why Colin Thompson would help Sturt? Please enlighten me!

Interested spectator, Sturt are a great club with excellent coaches and a program second to none.
The issues some have with them is that there is a perception that they value junior premierships above development with several of their junior teams having 4 or 5 country players ( mainly in the girls) and this leaves little opportunity for the development of those metro girls drifting in the two's.
Sturt argue the training they receive puts them on par with the Div 1 players but they don't progress at the rate of the others and miss out on opportunities.
I endorse the policy of clubs playing more than one div 1 team but some clubs block it , shortsightedly looking after their own backyard but until that is adopted metro district players get the sharp end of the stick.
Having so many country girls playing in various teams also means the pool of players available for metro selections for nationals etc is severely reduced and there needs to be a quota of country players allocated to each team but not exceeding 2 per team.
In Adelaide , we also have suburbs of Adelaide zoned country from horse and cart days and both southern and Mt Barker are ridiculous examples of that both being less than 30 minutes away.
Sturt have also been known to poach better than most of us so a natural jealousy has developed and certain people within sturt have access to boarding schools etc than others do not.
Sturt will tell you hard work and planning opposed to the perception of close ties to powerful alies are the reason they rule and some truth must be attributed to that but it does help to have well placed friends.
The banter on here is mostly good natured, often heated but most of us are grudingly proud of their achievements.

Victorian, Im glad you have such a strong interest in sturt. You have much in common with them, pride, arrogance and a hat size four times bigger than most. Try getting your point across with logical arguments and you may get better responses.

Victorian,
You clearly have little to no understanding. You need to talk to the other clubs you clearly have received half the story.

booga, at the risk of sounding like one of them, is it any wonder people start on sturt when they bring it upon themselves. I mean some of them have the audacity to make posts like #127457 or #127769.

Really would you not expect people to respond to this?

And to a lesser extent, which may bring a slightly more intelligent conversation, but never the less comments on sturt, post #127887...

Don't just blame sturt bashers blindly, yes it gets old, but so does the arrogance of many of the "sturt" posters, as the fine line between confidence and arrogance is often leaped over.

For the record I was not one of the previous sturt bashers in this thread.

Victorian,when you mentioned West as one of the clubs that have got it together, are you talking men, women, junior boys, junior girls, or all.

I admit I don't know much about their men and junior boys programs; however their junior girls program is dead in the water buddy with their current U21 womens team being one of the last strong womens teams to progress through the club.

booga which anon are you talking about, my response to you still stands (127951).

What has school got to do with that? I dont see where you are going with that. When did I cry, I just stated some observations I made re sturt bashing in this thread which you pointed out.

#952,
Wests U/18 girls are a very good side and deserve some respect. Mavericks U18 girls likewise are solid team.
Some of the the lower ranked clubs have got some talented girls playing but don't have the coaching staff to develop them. Unfortunately the better ones end up leaving because of it and the cycle of strong and weak clubs continue.
Spectator, cant say abut the boys team but Harbours girls are tough underskilled big hearted girls who foul hard and play paul M style- as dirty as you can get away with.

anon #127969,

Maybe your daughter is better of playing a non-contact sport like netball if you going to be such a sook.

Cowards who attack 14 year olds on public forums really lose all credibility when they complain about other people.

anon #127946,

So what is the real story then?

Hillbilly, the easter carnival alone is not what will develop teams and players.

There are plenty of tournaments throughout the yrs such as Eltham. Plus plenty of opportunity to develop players.

Your argument that teams that did not enter easter carnival should be given a kick up the but by BSA just epitomises the small minded, narrow minded, ignorance that exists.

Norwood 18 girls had the soft draw and played 1 game less so thy should romp it in.

Koonung !!!!! Rabbits who stack their teams with kids from Melbourne and Bulleen

What happened to Sandringham 18 boys ? Sasi beat them easily, did Jack Watts and Josh Wilcher play ?

Boys

16's Dandenong (def Melbourne by 20) vs Sturt (def West by 5)(also a rematch of Under 14 nationals 2 years ago!)

18's Frankston (def SASI by 20) vs Sturt (def North harbour by 10)

So.

Norwood 16 boys div 2 proved they coud beat div 1 team.

Sturt 14 Boys div 2 proved they could beat div 1 team.

Sturt 16 Girls div 2 proved they could beat a div 1 team.

Sturt 16 Boys div went into overtime against a div 1 team.

Sturt 14 girls div 2 lost to the 6th ranked div 1 team by 4 without 2 players.

Do we need more results to prove that pro/rel should happen.

But your assuming that all teams had their full complement of players. I know some of these teams didn't due to other Easter commitments. But yes, some of the better Div 2 teams can compete with some of the Div 1 teams but by being on a par does that mean we should have 2 teams from one club and nil from another if it doesn't make a quantum change in the quality of the teams in Div 1?

Anon, Clubs should be able to field 2 div 1 teams but certain restrictions would need to apply or the weaker clubs would disappear. No more than 1 Country player per team in a club that has 2 div 1 teams would be a good start. Zoned country areas where district clubs could work specific areas would be another.
Efective, real penalties like automatic loss of all points for clubs who breech the poaching rules.
Rationalization of the district clubs. West and Woodville merged. Sturt and south merged, North and Centrals merged etc etc.
Failing common sense and because at the moment most want to play with sturt , norwood forestville and north some kind of system that ensured the survival of the remaining clubs would need to be established before you allowed multiple div 1 teams for clubs.
As an aside, it was interesting to see interstate refs officiating in games and in particular, sturt girls games who were not intimidated like the local refs and actually called the fouls.
Spectator, yes trials are open and some div 2's etc do attend but it is difficult for talented two's players to make squads given they don't play against the best players each week and this usually shows in the pace of their games. Some players are invited who are not SASI members but are promising players to trials but this is the exception , not the rule.
Sturt bloodlines also dictate that they have an enormous say in all things basketball in SA and this is not always beneficial. But like they say, it's only a perception.

Anon, as soon as clubs have the right to more than one div 1 team, clubs like sturt, but not exclusively, would fill 2 or 3in several grades and this would attract even more players away from the weaker clubs so where would it stop?
The weaker clubs would get weaker and even less competitive because some would not be able to fill div 1 teams with div 1 players.
Take the sham of today where wests 16's girls div 1 lost easily to Norwood's two's who are hardly great.
Many clubs don't have a compliment of div 1 players in their teams at present and thats why, especially in the girls teams, competition is almost non existent. If clubs have the right to 2 or more div 1 teams , who would play for the weaker teams?
The crap of get off your ass and work, get better coaches, recruit more is rubbish and suggests that lower ranked clubs don't actively try to recruit and don't run half bad programs. You need the cattle, with a work ethic and basketball brains and more so, numbers but at present within the bottom 4 or 5 clubs in 14's thru 18's girls, not more than 1 or at most two in each team is a legitimate div 1 player in any other top club.
The short sighted view is we'd be better without the lower ranked teams where the top four would play each other each week
but is ultimately the way to destroy basketball, where zoning , redistribution of boundaries for recruiting , rationalization of perhaps 2 clubs would benefit basketball.
District needs to scrap below div 3 and call it social, strengthen district competitions with careful thought to the future and recognise junior basketball needs far more development than its getting now.
If BSA had the best interests of basketball at heart it would introduce policies that evened out the comp which would make it a competition.
Many of the clubs have been losers since their inception and have never know success, rather than take a club stance on this and gloat how great our individual clubs are by comparison surely we should try to strengthen our weakest links so we all improve.
I couldnt care less who wins the junior summer and winter 'championships' but I do care about the indifferent success of our players at nationals and the increasing gap between 'us' and 'them'. SA is obsessed with the, 'not a bad effort syndrome' 3rd, 4th 8th etc.
We need a competition with week in week out hard competition and BSA needs to find a recipe quickly which is designed to make the weaker clubs competitive.

anon #128104,

Yes I do think that clubs don't work hard. When BASA gave clubs money for junior development some clubs spent it on ABA players.

1/ How exactly does Sturts success at U14 to U18 level make their U10 teams so strong each year?

When 90% of players new to clubs don't know anything about what clubs are good or not.

2/ How will restricting the development of a club help the overall development of basketball in SA?

Making the better clubs worse wil only decease the standard of competition. Making the weaker clubs better is surely the only option.

Until your club accept that the philosophies and commitment are what make Sturt succesful, nothing BSA do will make your club competitive.

Under 18 Boys grand final, Sturt over Frankston by 1. Without a doubt game of the day, it was like watching an ABL game. Awesome talent on both sides with big play after big play. Sturt just made one more big play than Frankston to get over the line. Great game by both sides. This could be a preview of the Melbourne Classic final although Sandringham and Dandenong may have something to say about that as well.

U/16 Dandenong def Sturt.
U/18 Sturt def Frankston.

128120,
"Yes I do think that clubs don't work hard. When BASA gave clubs money for junior development some clubs spent it on ABA players."

- Are you talking about Ozhoops (or whatever) that was the predecessor to Aussie Hoops - How long ago wsa that????? Its not a club that spent it on ABA teams it was the management of the day. These clubs more than likely have an entirely set of new people running those clubs now. Maybe BSA should have been smarter and said to clubs: we will give you this money but you need to show us how you spent it on juniors. There is a need for BSA to lead and direct not to just be a body that hands out money.

How did the SA boys fair against a strong Dandy group ? I know the scores show a 15 pt. loss but how did the SA Metro boys go against the Dandy bigs ?

Your thoughts on Nationals for the SA boys ? Considering they won in 14's, has the group come on ?

Dandy showed the value of tougher competition on a regular basis, their intensity was at a higher level for longer periods of the game. Sturt matched them for 3 quarters, however the 2nd quarter was where the damage was done. Overall a great result for the Sturt boys.

Look at it another way, put the Sturt, Norwood and West boys together and you have a line up that can certainly challenge the Vics. It might be an old fashioned SA Met - Vic Met final in July!

anon #128135

There may be a totally new management at all clubs since $10K was wasted on ABA teams. Dr Damage, your club actaully used this money for development.

But right now, how many clubs have somebody going into schools and running Aussie Hoops for their clubs? Thats right, it is Sturt.

Tell me why BSA should decrease the level of competition when your club is unwilling to use it's ABA budget to employ a development officer?

Dr Damage,

1/ Are you saying that the best kids should be taken out of the competition in each grade to make it more even?

2/ How would this improve basketball?

3/ Why is it then that 1 clubs seems to have a large proportion of these players throughout all grades?

4/ And, I agree that fundemental development is the key. So why is it the your clubs U16 teams don't play anything but zone for 40 minutes? And that again 1 club has a higher rate of players going onto the next level?

5/ How do you explain the U10 situation?

I agree a good result for the Sturt 16 boys but not certain if it was the result of
Dandy boys more intense competition. Dandy have added to their squad with
the inclusion of M/Tiger big and Sturt lost starting five forward to football.
Also the Dandy press took time off the clock so Sturt but up forced shoots.
I thought Sturt could have used there big boy a little better by getting the ball
inside more than they did.
Sturt 18 boys fantastic result.

PM - here's a solution to your pro-rel problem. Start a new club. Call it Sturt2 and enter div2 teams under that name.

"PM - here's a solution to your pro-rel problem. Start a new club. Call it Sturt2 and enter div2 teams under that name."

Do you mean enter a div 1 team as Sturt already enters second teams in div 2

by starting a new club called Sturt2 or whatever you want to call, you could have your current div 2 teams in div 1.

Under tens at sturt is explained easily by the hordes of children they get as a result of the combined forestville and Sturt engineered Hoops program.
Forget what has and is happening and concentrate on what should be.
The district comp is such in name only for 4 or 5 clubs tops.
Can you scrap some Clubs- answer probably not as member clubs are not going to scrap themselves.
So how do woodville, souths, wests,southern centrals and mavericks catch up to the rest. Answer they can't without a set direction from the member clubs as a whole and a 5 to 10 year plan.
Would the district comp improve without so many clubs, I think so in the short term but not in the longer term.
Should clubs have a ceiling on the number of teams they have more than on the division they play. Again I think yes.
Should clubs be able to field 2 or more div 1 teams in each grade, yes and have them graded over summer to see if they rate a winter spot which would justify this useless season.
Forget and forgive the imbecilic club leaders who blew BASA legups and focus on the now because a stronger district comp is the only way to national success which is everyones goal.
How about some of the top coaches coming to the lower ranked clubs and showing us how its done. Maybe a son of glid could work miracles where the ordinary have failed.
Start zones from 2008 and allow players irrespective of where they are from stay with the clubs of choice til then but start thinking of the future. Zone country areas likewise.
Its too simple to say the top clubs have done it right and leave it there as basketball is slipping in popularity at schools and more sporting variety continues to be a threat and add to that the drop off at U18's plus. Basketball does not want to become a sport for the very young and older age groups only and lose its way. We need to play smarter, less and play the better carnivals only or lose even more .
BSA, wheres the direction?

Paul, how many of those 24 are metro, and how many are country?

9 Country and 13 Metro. All considered equal by Sturt.

Dr Damage,

Disagree regarding the seniors.

Sturt had not won an ABA title since the 70's, until 2004. In that time they won numerous junior championships.

In fact most club put all their effort and resources into seniors at the expense of juniors.

(#128270) - and you'd know this because you're a member of most clubs?

No, becase most clubs do not employ a junior development officer but are willing to pay ABA players.

What point is appointing a JDO unless its a full time position and how would most clubs fund them?
How many of the clubs employ a JDO full time?

Dr I would not agree with much of what you said there. I like most of your posts. Of your current mens top 10 team were infact developed by clubs such as Adelaide (x3), Torrens Valley (x2) and Sturt (x2), Interstate (x2).

Andrew Webber and Dan Thompson are the only 2 legitimate Norwood juniors in the current mens side.

Dr Damage, why not? Sturt have the highest percentage of junior representation in their senior teams whilst maintaining competitiveness.

anon #128294

1 clubs does and they are reaping the benefits.

Clubs pend $50K on their senior programs. Take half of that and put it with the profits of the development program and you have a full time coaching diretor/junior development officer.

Just for the record to an earlier post....(#128043)

Koonung is a small domestic club based in eastern Melbourne. The suggestion we load our teams with players with Melbourne and Bulleen players is farcical!

We do not have a Melbourne Tigers player in our club. Our juniors have been going to Bulleen for Championship and this is where your confusion may be based.

All but 2 players who played in our 3 teams over Easter have been Koonung players for a long period of time. It was a fantastic for the kids to play with their old school mates and do so well against quality opposition!

Sandringham 18s were very unlucky, they beat Sturt by 12 points in the first match but dropped one against SASI and missed finals by percentage. They were also without Jack Watts.

aa,

Are you suggesting that Angela Marino that has played for Sturt since the age of 10 years old is not home grown becasue she is from the country.

Or is it just that your child is not good enough to make an elite level team that you here to have a cry?

Dr Damage,

I think that you will find that Todd played 6 - 8 years at Sturt.

But other than that I agree with your sentiment.

Dr D, Tod played ALL his juniors at Sturt and moved to Norwood in Under 20's (which is seniors IMO) because of a change of address.

Yea and it took Norwood 3-4 yrs of hard poaching to poach that one.

Sturt complaining about poaching, now there's a hollow ring and as for home grown crap, sturt have pinched a lot of saplings they now claim to be sturt trees.

No such thing as home grown anymore it is about counrty grown and how tall are you, your a star even if you have never played before

I don't think Todd was "poached" - I believe he left because his family moved out to that side of town? Was a long time ago so I'm not positive, but I'm fairly sure he left Sturt on good terms.

Height being important in basketball? Who would've thought...

Im sure he left sturt on good terms but he had trained with Norwood during u18s as well. The coach tried for 3 yrs to get him over.

There is this thing that goes along with height and i am pretty sure it's called SKILL.............

Considering the results Sturt have and are getting, that they have some idea what they are doing.

But I'm sure that being a parent makes you a qualified assesor of talent. I'm sure that you are not looking through rose coloured glasses. (insert sarcasm here)

Who mentioned anything about Sturt, not everthing is about them.......... everyone is quick to assume things ??????????