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Sector7G. "I think you'll find that the strong clubs have less favouritism." You base that on what knowledge / experience? That is another one of your 'out there' statements with no basis of fact.

realist,

I am a division 1 coach. I select the best team possible. I do not care who is in my team (or who they are related to); it will be the best 4 guards 4 forwards and 2 centres (or similar mix depending on numbers at any given year, might be 3-3-2 if I go with 8, you get the drift). I regularly visit not only lower divisions at my club, but lower age groups as well.

I think it is insulting that you suggest all coaches do this, and I sincerely hope that there are no coaches like this. All coaches I know select in the same manner as myself, and work many hours due to lack of coaches to develop their squads. They may not get to every game in every division (name me one person in the country of Australia not on the dole that has time to do that) but they will keep an eye on their squad (all divisions relevant to them) as much as possible.

Coaches at this level do not deserve such criticism from people like you about their selection or coaching. How many teams do you coach? I don't think you do or you would realise that your comments are rubbish.

I have had kids think they have been left out of division 1, some have worked hard and made my team at a later date proving to me they are capable, others have left to find another club, in my experience these kids have never made a team (div 1) at another club as they are not willing to work, they expect div 1 to be handed to them, and blame it on things such as a certain parents kid in div 1 or the coach doesn't like me or a country kid (124712) etc. Believe me this is never the case (in my experience). Enter your argument.

Please refrain from speculative bullshit, go and coach a team and make sure none of this happens on your watch& or shut up.

Division 1 has always been a matter of put up or shut up. Either you put up and show me you are a division 1 player, or shut up and play div 2-5. End of discussion.

realist, I never claimed to be a perfect coach nor god. Simply stated the facts. What ego, all I said is you clearly do not know what goes into team selection.

I do not know why you are so upset, maybe you or your child was not picked for a team. If you think I need to open my eyes, I would suggest again I coach division 1 and know coaches at most clubs, and they all operate the same way, maybe I am missing one (doubt it, but maybe there is one out there).

You are right you do offend people, as you probably don't coach right? So you would not understand how insulting such comments are, while I normally ignore them, I chose to reply this time as I am sick of hearing it (reading) on this forum particularly as you misinform people that may not know better. Let me tell you I, like most coaches, spend a lot of hours coaching multiple groups, and do not need senseless criticism as our time is voluntary and we want the best for our teams and kids.

Maybe rather than whinge on here you could constructively ask the coach what you or your child needs to do to make div 1. When players ask me this I am more than happy to help (both with telling them and individual training), I am less inclined to if you start attacking from the get go as to why "Johnny" made it over you/your child.

You can either play the victim, or do something about it. If you play the victim, then you/your child will not get any better, and I suggest will probably never make div 1. If you work hard, talk to the coach, and stick at it then you/your child may just prove the coach wrong, and they will select you/your child.

Something to think about:

I have NEVER selected a player because they/their parents have posted on hoops complaining about x, y, or z. And I don't know a coach that has or would.

I will always choose a team I believe I can best "go to war" with, as will all coaches I know.

In a perfect world all players that trial for div 1 will get a spot, they would all come to all trainings, work equally as hard in those trainings, and put in the same ammount of work in their own time. They would all be as skilled as eachother, as athletic as eachother, as smart as eachother and, understand the game as much as eachother, and be as good as eachother and get equal court time. The reality is some players come to trainings others don't, some players work harder in trainings, some players do more work in their own time, some players are more athletic than others, some players are more skilled than others, some players are smarter than others, some players are flat out better than others. There are more players than div 1 spots, some will get these spots, others will not. Maybe you should leave your "Utopia Land" and join the rest of us in reality as your name suggests.

and "victorian" is your first name?

What is the interesting part of all this is the debate.
Life's not fair and lots of people 'get a ride' in all walks of life including basketball.
There's very little point arguing about it with a coach as , is he or she going to say, ' of course I picked johnny when I should have picked bill but you know, John's dad is on the committee?' I think not. Are coaches ever going to say out loud , I give into to parent pressure? Look around some coaches and you will see a vast array of parents in various guises all licking the same object.
However,many would say those who volunteer at clubs deserve more when their kids are only marginally behind a competitor.
"Country kids get spots ahead of metro kids who are better so that the coaches can slot them in their country state teams" I've heard it many times, is it fact? As its all subjective who can say but the perception is, its fact. Is it fair? Depends on where you sit on fairness and whats right for who. Country state train a kid for their team who will perform better than if he or she didnt get the gig but a better metro kid misses a spot. Life's not about fairness or even the perception of fairness but more about what you can get away with to most.
In lower ranked clubs getting into a div 1 team is not as arduous as trying to crack a top 4 side where they have established players, who rightly or wrongly have myths and legends associated with their deeds. Some are great players , some are not but displacing them when they have been entrenched in the club for some time is rarely going to occur. Parent blocks' develop and new comers often excluded.
By the same token for players who have remained loyal to the club and travelled with them, breaking out of being a div 2 player can be equally as hard if not impossible.
Coaches generally tend to see a player as a potential Div 1 or always a div 2 and where you sit in their eyes dictates your fate.
Other clubs have a 'do your time mentality' which I think is the poorest of the lot. These clubs tend to let first years go to the 2's irrespective of ability and is often a sop for talentless coaches or to the 2nd year parents, but recall again, life's not fair.
What to do about it?
If you possess large circular orbs irrespective of gender and your parents have equal courage, you would leave, seek out any of the minor four clubs and grab a div 1 spot and show the world you were right and they were wrong. But as in most things in life, with our inability to even swap banks when they rip us off, most just take the shite and roll over content to be a div 33 player and complain loudly on this forum.
If more kids moved who are in the 2's now our comp might improve and life might just get a little fairer.

Interesting topic. As a div 1 coach of a poor team in our age group, I would clearly welcome any disgruntled div 2 players who wish to prove the world wrong. Only if they are prepared to play within the team structure though. But I remain anon because I don't want to be accused of poaching. As for spending time with all teams in your age group and younger age groups, that's the way it should be in utopia, but if you can keep in touch with other coaches and attend the occaisonal game and/or training, you've done well.

Whats ur name, been ther done that?

All players in an age group should know which teams they could get a div 1 spot at if they are serious about improving their game and playing against the best in their age group. Maybe they are in div 2 cause they dont play the team game, which is what basketball is, or at least what i understood it to be.

In every , every div 1 team there are players who don't play the team game and stay div 1 players. If you didnt know that you dont know a lot.
There a million resons why they stay, they may have a brother or sister who is a superstar and the club wants to heep them sweet. They may turn over all the time but still score enogh points to be valuable, hey may be the coach, president of the club or uaunt mary's favourite child but it is naive to say its a team game and non team players don't play div 1.

Hard to play a team game when half your team don't train ie: " cause they are from the country" what kind of message does that send to the kids busting their butts at EVERY training and they get overlooked!!!!!!!

124808 it tells them they are not at the same standard, and they need to work on some (or all) of their game, that is the message it sends.

DaddyO, they dont pick bad div 1 teams, but they could pick ones just as good or in some cases better for all the reasons mentioned above.
#810, I disagree, some country kids playing ones are inferior to metro kids in the div below and its just part of life. Coaches make the decisions and if kids and parents dont like it they need to swap clubs. The point made above somewhere is this just doesnt happen and the dissatisfied kids and parents become disgruntled whingers or covert trouble makers.
Even tho they have grounds for being disappointed etc, they need to be proactive and leave.
Some have done this and never looked back , others not so well. You need to make your own opportunities in life and not leave it to other people.

naive to say its a team game, interesting. Yet to see someone win 1 on 5.

(#124808)Here, here; lets make it a fair fight for a div 1 spot with every kid, no matter if they are country or metro having to attend a minimum of 70% of mid week trainings, and I bet you find that all of a sudden country kids that are never seen around the club mid week, start popping up everywhere.

What a joke it is when a team is trying to learn a play and they have 3 of there "country superstars" not in attendance. When are they suppose to learn plays?

Then again we hear how good country kids are all the time I suppose they are born with the knowledge already imprinted in them... I guess.

Country kids train mid-week, as well as play 1 or 2 games in their local association.

How about this we run midweek trainings at the country associations. Make all the city kids can practise the travel that country kds do.

All coaches have favourites. They are the players that listen, work hard and produce results.

Hiding behind training attentance does not change the fact that that your kids probably have no game and isn't good enough to make div 1. Move to another club and play againt these country players.

My club had 3 players who thought the exact same thing as all the people here. They moved to another club becasue they thought they were good enough for div 1. They currently have not won a game this season and have clearly proven that being from the city counts for nothing, other than having parents that cant see except through rose coloured glasses.

IMO its naive to think this the rule and not the exception. Most coaches spend a lot of their time trying to build 'team' and personalities within teams , ego and parent pressure ( go for it, shoot it) dont help.