They have applied for name change to "Eastern Outlaws"
If this is happening, BSA need to show some force and penalise

No promises down there mate.

New coach = New rules

Well Anonymous thank you for your insight. Fact is this has occurred and has been raised with the BSA. Regardless of who approaches who there are proper channels with regards to required players and I would have thought most teams would have done there recruiting last year not in March, 2 weeks before the season starts.

The point was though is there a conflict of interest?

And further to that I think you'll find most ABL squads have at least 5 guards - its up to the individuals involved to earn there own court time.

More comments pls

We talking juniors or seniors?

For the benefit of this discussion (not going to mention the coaches/people involved because they are good people - everyone makes poor judgement calls)

Last week I had an ABL coach (who has nothing to do with juniors) sms and speak to a 14 yr old kid (the kid's mobile and NOT his parents) at my club with discussions of college scholarships and the told the kid that ALL their coaches were state coaches (untrue, they dont have any at all). What is going on with poaching? Rules need to put in place to stop this. Eastern was not the club that engaged in this misjudgement.

This same kid has been approached by 3 clubs. With unofficial approaches (from parents) by at least 1 other club. I reckon the kid involved needs an agent now.

Any names available of the so called alleged players contacted.

This is no different for west getting lightning players cause west coach is the lightning coach also

(#123262),

It probably is a bit different to that. Here we are talking about players that may be looking for more court time, or a club looking to give players an opportunity they may not have had at their current club.

Wrt the Lightning players i dont think court time would be an issue for the decision of which club they play at! But it again raises the question - should we require quality coaches like Gilles, Wong and Hill to only give their talents to the select few that are good enough to be in the Lightning or Academy - I think not. What if Breheny turned around and said he wanted to coach and ABL club and would have Copeland, Davidson and Horvath play there. I think the benefits of him coaching in the local league and the chance for the other younger players at that club to learn from him would far outweigh any potential "conflicts" with him being involved with the sixers.

Maybe clubs should be able to approach other players.
It will teach clubs to look after their players.

I am not sure what the rules are, but I think that it will be a good thing to allow clubs to poach players.

Everyone complains about clubs like Sturt poaching players.
If that is the case, then there must be some dis-satisfied players at Sturt. Maybe those whinging clubs should approach those players if they are not happy.

It would make it more interesting if there could be open trade mongst the clubs and players.

#123270
"It will teach clubs to look after their players.

I am not sure what the rules are, but I think that it will be a good thing to allow clubs to poach players.

Everyone complains about clubs like Sturt poaching players.
If that is the case, then there must be some dis-satisfied players at Sturt.\"

No it is not good that clubs are allowed to poach players. For instance my daughter was approached a season ago to player for Southern tigers U14Div1 team and guaranteed a place. Now, thank goodness we said no, we see that the person who instigated this, has moved to Sturt and taken another player with him ( who personally is not Div 1 potential) and is coaching a Div 2 position (apparently soon to take over U14 Div 1 next season). Where would this have left my daughter had she left her club? I am glad I made the right decision and put faith in her club.

Yeah open trading sounds great, im sure its inspirational for juniors growing up in the club environment that loyalty and commitment mean nothing.

Are these the life lessons we wish to teach juniors, if you dont get your own way after the club puts years of peoples time and effort into your development you can just pack up and leave?

The club has got these guys to the point where they can play ABA, many, sorry most, dont even come close to having that opportunity. Where is the return?

If Eastern have no future does that give them the right to poach anothers? If Southern were informed of the intent then maybe they would have a chance to speak to the players involved instead of finding out they have had someone in their ear for weeks.

Its not always easy to come to the coach and talk about where your at and where you think you should be, particularly if you have been away from the team and playing State or training with the Academy.

Something stinks here and its coming from the hills.

whats new its been happening since state was around it happens with the boomers play for Brian Goorjian get a gig in the boomers

we dont poach players they have been approaching us

thats my last post inrgards to magic in this thread coz i'm not getting into a magic bash

something needs to be done about state coaches maybe not poaching but persuading players to come to thier clubs it not right

I think some of the younger players running around in the ABL need to get over themselves and bide their time on the bench. I'm sure all the current ABL stars had to wait in line when they were 18, 19 year olds. Work hard at training, show some patience and loyalty, and I'm sure the coaches will eventually reward you. Just look at Braithwaite for the Tigers last year... he had sat on the bench for the previous two seasons, a few injuries worked in his favour and he found himself on the starting 5 and tearing up. Just wait for the older players to break down, it's that simple folks.

"illegally approached a 3rd player in as many months"

Please enlightened me about the meaning of this and what are the rules?

In response to the claim "illegally poaching" players I feel compelled to respond with some facts rather than speculation.
As an academy and state coach I have worked very closely with many very talented players. Over a period of close to six months, I along with KB have put in as many as 20 hours per week conducting team and individual sessions for these aspiring players. (for zero remuneration)
Yes we do have the opportunity to develop close relationships with many of these players, and in some instances players have sought advice in regard to their playing environment. To suggest that I have used this privelege to secure players for my club is an insult to my integrity and that of the program. Over a number of years I have (other coaches would have also)had contact from players seeking a change of environment, in all instances I have suggested that the player talk it through with their coach, and in most instances they have remained at their club or we have not had the opportunity for them. That has always been my response and always will be. the only difference is that at this time my club does not have a deep roster and is keen to add players.
My responsibility as coach is to ensure the competitive future of our ABL team and I will continue to opperate within the guidlines set out by BSA and more importantly my personal standards to ensure we are competitve and provide a program where young men can fulfill their potential. If someone has any issues they wish to discuss feel free to call me, one of your young players will have my number and whilst getting it from them ask them if I have tried to recruit them, you'll be dissappointed with their response.

Southern have adhered to the by laws with all approaches this year and previous.

They had the respect and integrity to allow teams the chance to talk to their players before any offical contact was made.

That is not the case in this circumstance.

I fully endorse the job Richard Hill does for basketball in SA. He is knowledgable, committed and passionate about basketball.

However...

Someone in his position would want to dot all the i's and cross all the t's when recruiting or attempting to recruit 3 people from the specialist programs he's involved in.

KB refrained from asking people in the academy to join Woodville when he coached, as did Ninnis with Sturt.

I think its amusing that letters of intent have mysteriously landed on the doorstep of the Southern Club mere hours after this thread was started...? too little too late maybe?

Isaac , i think in light of the last 5-6 posts this matter should be left for the appropriate people involved to deal with . Not openly on this forum ??

I wouldnt have thought that discussing a players playing environment constituted talking to a player about joining your club or any other for that matter.

123328, I'm not following it in detail, but from a brief skim it seems to be fairly reasonable when compared to past, similar topics? At least in this format, those who may be involved have an opportunity to respond - the same is not true of gossip only.

Some quality posts on the possibility of open trading and the like.

Happy to hear other opinions on that though.

Richard, I would be interested to hear your response to why you did not advise the club when young players have discussed there environment with you.

imo - there is a conflict of interest here

I agree players should not be permitted to train with another club and training with another clubs coach is the same thing!!!!

gutsy call Mr Hill re your comment about recruiting "and you'll be disappointed with their response"

the player has told or telling past team mates and others that he didn't approach you direct or kept at you for a spot on your team and maybe your comment "does not have a deep roster and is keen to add players" was a little silly at the time one feels

Been at him for a while with Country commitments - the academy was a nice disguise

Must be a little desperate "to add players" as he is gone after game 7 on a holiday overseas

I wonder if he too is getting a house up in them Hills  been done before or maybe just a flagon

wolf - please refrain from making this overly speculative.

or just one, continually trying to push his/her point......

It's a sorry day when you see those Mavericks people trying to stop people from reporting the news.

It's just like when people try and stop me from playing my jazz Flute.

Come onnnn, this is the news people. If Boti can write it and not have any solid proof to back it up, so can I.

Mr Richard Hill, of the Eastern Magic has admitted that players approach him. And that he currently needs players due to Easterns inability to develop them. And, that letters have not been given to the clubs. If that's not news then "Panther" is the greatest cologne of all time.

Let the news out. Don't stop the news.

I'm Ron Burgandy. You stay classy San Diego.

Can someone explain the required process to me?

Benchie has legitimate dealings with CoachX (e.g., Academy). Discussions regarding how they're progressing, what they want to achieve, etc are natural and happen. At that point, CoachX has not put the suggestion to the player that they could get a better run elsewhere. Benchie hasn't broached it because they're either not interested or don't know whether they'd be wanted.

What's supposed to happen given that scenario? CoachX approaches Benchie's club for permission to broach the topic even though Benchie might not be at all interested? Or Benchie tells his club that he wants to speak with CoachX even though he's not sure whether CoachX wants him there?

Needs to be a balance between the development of the individual and club's being rewarded for the development they put into their juniors. I would suggest that some form of points system be applied to limit the number of transfers. eg. A transfering player is 3 points in first season, 2 in second and one in third. Depending on development requirements BSA could assign a maximum number of points to each club/age group. eg a strong club may have a maximum of 5 points in any side whereas a developing club may be given 10 points.

Anon 413 - Find me a club that is running at a profit? It is not a matter of financial rewards. It is rewards for doing all the junior development work, talent identification programs, volunteer hours in extra coaching sesions etc etc. If a club does all this and develops a number of juniors then they need some protection against other clubs taking the easy option and "poaching" all of them.

If it's about the position of power, are those positions giving back enough to warrant the exclusivity? Do those positions get inferior coaches as a result were that to happen?

IMO, if a coach, at the start of a State/Academy season, announced to the players "If you'd like to speak to me about coming to ClubName, please contact your club first" - wouldn't people get fired up over that as essentially advertising it as an option? Employees don't raise the prospect of them leaving before talking to other options - should things fall through, they'll be treated poorly as a result.

I just think that a player broaching the issue with a coach is a natural option. Things come up in chit-chat like that all the time.

As has been said, it has to be a compromise for what's best for the player's development and the club. If one club has a bucket of guards and a few are going to get stuck in line, it's natural for them to try their luck elsewhere.

What I find interesting is the old arguement of how coaches 'volunteer' their time. Some do, that's true but I see a great number using kids for their own progression in the coaching ranks. They really don't give a shit about the kid but if he helps them win then he wants them. Winning is everything disguised under a thin veil of 'development'. The kids who do get stuck in this regime, if they do go on to make it won't be because of these coaches but in many cases in spite of them. Apologies for a little off topic.

Lets set the record straight.

Yes I looked at moving,
Yes I contacted Richard Hill and the Mavericks.
I did this because I felt at the time that I would have limited opportunities at southern.

At NO stage did Richard Approach or try to influence me in anyway to join his club.

Not during my time at the academy or at state, he is only focused on getting the best out of everyone he coaches.

Anyone who knows Richard knows he's a person of high integrity and would never abuse his position.

Most people know this, otherwise they would put their names to the above letters.

After talking with a number of my team mates I have decided to stay at Southern and would like to thank Richard and the Mavericks for understanding my decision.

cheers

Phil Brown

phil brown talking never he's the quietest player on the court not!

Well said Phil indeed .

As someone who knows Richard i can envision a lot of kids thinking about moving clubs to play under him .
He is a man of intregrity , a fantastic communicator , and he gives a shit about his players as people off the court .
Basically he is a good bloke and if there were more like him alot more kids would be enjoying their basketball .

re: Eastern attempt to illegally poach reqd player (#123357)
(#123286) Spadge, NOW your not getting into Magic bashing coz.....

Stop bringing Magic up every time you post!

Anonymous, 09/03/07


i was relpying to post (#123251) so maybe u should read before u type
and try getting a handle or r u worried about having to be accountable for the what u type

if u r willing to post it u should be willing to post a handle loser

spadge a brain fade hahaha. we are all still waiting for him to explain who the jdo is at his little social club. my guess is like him no one will know.
i think other people are still waiting for an answer about coaches passes as well.