I hope not, they can't pull in the crowds anymore.
City is too big, other sports to compete with.

I'd rather see the Brisbane Bullets return.

Only if the Easter Bunny is assistant coach to the Tooth Fairy

I hope they come back, as a kings fan, but there has been no news. Starting a totally new team in sydney would be nearly as bad as calling the west sydney razorbacks the sydney spirit and trying to recruit kings fans.

Where would be the best place for a Kings team to play home games ?

Sacramento!

I read somewhere on the weekend that the Kings and Bullets may yet be in line to return next season. And a second Melbourne association collective run team the season after is set to join as well to run out of the new stadium at Scoresby.
Some more interesting times ahead.

Kings better play in Stanhope Gardens in West Sydney. never had they experience crowd so alive than playing there

in reality Sydney does not have that many other sports to compete with, that argument does not hold true when you consider melbourne, which has significantly more going on in the sporting arena than sydney does.

Sydney's problem is that it is not a spectator city. It does not have the tribalism of the melbourne sporting fans.... as the famous quote from the seventies goes (don't ask me who) "ducks on a pond would draw a crowd in melbourne, as long as someone thinks they are racing".

Any association based melbourne team would struggle desperately IMO. For a start corporate support at an eastern suburbs venue would be incredibly difficult to engage, and its the corporates and season members that provide your financial backbone in the NBL. No one would drive from the cbd or st kilda on a workday to watch a game, and on a Saturday its probably worse.

That leaves you with low rent eastern suburbs business support, who cannot pay 15k plus for a corporate box but would pay more like 6k at best - low margin, poor seat yields etc.

So after a first year losing heavily the associations would start to bicker, one or two would refuse to "put in" and the team is in trouble.

Couldnt agree less HO. The new stadium is a low rent stadium in the heart of one of the strongest basketball regions in the world. It's proximity to so many big associations, some of whom will be actively promoting it, means it will be able to reach the target audience better than any previous Melbourne club.

Signinifcant corporate support will be drawn from the contacts these five associations - who have approx 60-70,000 members between them + parents - have in their midst, which would be many given the eastern suburbs are where many high ups in the corporate world live with their families.

Corporate support is also drawn more to a product that is succcessful in attracting popular support. Corporates love to be backing something that is has full houses on a regular basis, providing an exciting experience for their clients.

As long as the governance model is a good one and not mired in the everyday politics of the five associations, this is a winner.

I'm with Paul on the proposed Associatoon backed 2nd Melbourne team playing out of Scoresby. The Eastern Melbourne corridor has the greatest basketball playing density compared to just about anywhere in the world!

This new venue is located on the new tollway and within 20min to all major associations in the region. I think it will prove to be a goldmine and just what Melbourne needs.

The location of the Cage is horrible for Melbourne basketball fans.

Kings would and should play at entertainment centre.

Gaze was saying on Wednesday night that he thought it was very likely that Sydney and Brisbane would have teams in the league. Even accounting for his usual optimism, you'd have to think it was a better than 50:50 shot.

Paul, the numbers are likely wrong. Even the ambitious claims of Merlino's release about the new stadium only sought to grab 35k from this corridor. There is no way any of these associations are averaging 12-14k membership. Knox and Kilsyth only claim around 10k and then its with a smirk on their face as they know they are bullshitting!! Everyone else is smaller than them. I heard two years back for example that Dandenong's true unique participants were closer to 6k.

BV claim 100k across Vic, of which 25k or so are country. That just reinforces the 35 k figure as more accurate.

Whatever, its based on a mystical notion that those who play the game will support the game or a team. That does not prove true in aussie sport generally Rugby league followers and tv watchers are not necessarily players, AFL fans are mums and dads, a high percentage of whom are women, who follow a team as part of a long term (life-long) cultural indoctrination.

The a-league will acknowledge their crowds are not neceessarily participants, particularly in melbourne, and the Glory built their support on ex-pat english type support, not massive participant numbers coming to their games. Northern Spirit in the old NSL flamed brilliantly then crashed and burned around a strategy of attracting the soccer playing minions of northern sydney to their games. Sydney (Kings) in the mid-nineties build great crowds at the SEC, despite losing, through an aggressive on the ground marketing strategy that involved, but did not necessarily engage grassrooots support.

Now all of this is desirable...you WANT these people to provide the backbone of your crowd and supporter base. But you must provide great corporate opportunities beyond "branding" if you want to make it as a club in the NBL. The Kings had a truly rocking gamenight and crowds and sponsors in the mid nineties - but sponsors paid the bills and got lots in return - awesome personal interaction with players - joint promotions etc etc. And remember, the kings are the only team in the entire history of the league to make BIG profits.

If it is a low rent stadium, will it have the features and attractiveness to really cut through top tier corporate support? The Cage is in a shit location, but its actually a nice venue. Hisense and Rod Laver provide terrific corporate feel. if the new venue is just a more up to date Dandenong then yuk... if its not then it will not be a low rent venue...

Here's my scenario. The Associations drop 400k (modest) on the first year of the new team. In the second year they drop 280k. By year three junior rep parents, angry and fed up that their kid's playing fees are paying some imports wages will be stoking the fires to take control of the board at a couple of these associations and destablize the whole thing.

These associations have been there before. And some have very long memories.

if only the Sydney Kings will be own by Philippine basketball godfather Danding Cojuangco(former James Boag beer owner) then it will be a totally different ball club. probably a more better league.

HO, if parents getting angry because their fees are paying an imports wages, none of these teams would still have a SEABL team, which have been subsidised hundreds of thousands by parents for years.

The figure referred to in the recent media release (which was 43,000 players), but I have been told the real number with school comps etc is higher than that - not that it matters, it is a lot either way.

You talked of a myth of participants attending sports, and used the AFL as an example. However, the AFL and its Auskick program is the classic example of how harnessing participants - particularly juniors - is the most effective and cheapest way to invigorate crowds.

Having a stadium that will allow them to cover player wages (at current levels) from home attendances, located in the middle of a basketball heartland gives the new club (who already have all members and other participants from the 5 associations on a database) the perfect opportunity to harness junior particiapants.

The location of the stadium wont be an issue if the product is good, and by that I mean the club is regularly able to attract sellouts or near sellouts, and the league is receiving tv coverage that is attractive to sponsors.

As I said earlier, the networks in these associations are an excellent starting point, and if the organisation offers a good corporate experience location will not be a hindrance.

If the organisation is run poorly, your scenario could well come true. If it is run well it can be a big success. Either way, the corporate deals secured by the league will have a much bigger impact than association politics or stadium location.

Kings stadium choice was a big part of it, to far out, bad area and basically to much of a hassle to get to, then the other way round in the city the rent was stupidly high, not sure how they can resolve either issue.

"attracting the SOCCER playing minions"

Thankyou HO :P

Very informative post as always.

LOL

sorry Anon, been off screen for a little while... off topic / on topic whatever, someone else raised the melbourne thing, I responded to it. I am not a poster who just comes here and speculates/slags. I normally bring some information to the equation and I respect other's opinions - especially someone like Paul, who debates with intelligence, and is ok to disagree with.

Paul, I re-read the release - it does quote 43k, which it claims was 35% - hence my 35k confusion - my bad.

I cannot agree on stadium location however. The issue is location, and facility. It's a great big deal, its why major sports build stadia close to city centres, and its why stadia built away from city centres in Australia (homebush) become ghost towns. This is even more concentrated for the sprawl that is Sydney and Melbourne.

The same sydney kings organisation that drew excellent sec crowds could not replicate that at homebush. The fact is that memberships died rapidly because of location, the product was much the same.

And the stadium must provide the corporate facilities that make a corporate want to be there. Building those facilities for occasional use is just not economically feasible - and it will be occasional use if it is just for nbl (and what else will conceivably play there?).

The associations juniors paying for seabl teams (and Knox reportedly is the worst at this) eat that cake to some degree because at least it is their team. A jointly owned NBL side is not that case, especially "on top" of a seabl program.

Again, most of these associations have failed to mobilise crowds to their own teams, there is no evidence that they will mobilise them to a joint side. in fact, the opposite could well occur. The new venue is already seen as "Knox's" venue - there will be many who will specifically not support the team because it is playing there!

As for AFL, sorry... huge crowds before auskick came along and it will have huge crowds long after that program has died. The AFL has a cultural following, and embedded tribalism that helps attendances. I know many many families with no connection to particiaption in the game who attend on a regular basis, buy memberships etc. The AFL and the NRL are self generating machines. From the day you are born you are given a team to support and you do so.

Football (sorry XztatiK) and basketball have been preaching the "convert" the participants mantra for years and years, and in that time have easily had the participant numbers to match AFL and ARL - and they have consistently failed to do it.

I love basketball, I've been to 5-6 AFL games this year (and do not actually support a team) and Rugbly league State of origin. I normally go to the boxing day test. I have not been inside an NBL stadium in nearly 2 seasons Having said that I will always get to Opals or Boomers games because of the rarity of them.